Thursday, March 13, 1997 4:00:01 AM
          Message
  From:          The Hotline Users Mailing,Hotline@lists.fwparker.org,Internet
  Subject:   The Hotline Users Digest #59 - 03/13/97
  To:            Geoff Le Feuvre
                 The Hotline Users Mailing List <Hotline@lists.fwparker.org>,Internet
The Hotline Users Digest #59 - Thursday, March 13, 1997

  Be Careful of the Dark Side Luke
          by  <slawrenson@igs.net>
  Re: Be Careful of the Dark Side Luke
          by  Jason Yates <bit@cyberstreet.com>
  Re: Be Careful of the Dark Side Luke
          by  Adam T <keyclub@tiac.net>
  Re: Be Careful of the Dark Side Luke
          by  Phil Hilton <phil@hotlinesw.com>
  pc client ban
          by  Al <alx@ziplink.net>
  Re: pc client ban
          by  Jason Yates <bit@cyberstreet.com>
  Re: pc client ban
          by  Chad <chad@i2net.com>
  Re: HL Port
          by  Zorkian <zorkian@earthling.net>
  Re: Be Careful of the Dark Side Luke
          by  Chad <chad@i2net.com>
  Re: HL Port
          by  fletchie <fletchie@mcs.com>
  Re: HL Port
          by  Jason Yates <bit@cyberstreet.com>
  Re: Be Careful of the Dark Side Luke
          by  Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
  Re: pc client ban
          by  Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
  Re: pc client ban
          by  Mark Walker <Mrwalker@cris.com>
  Re: pc client ban
          by  Chris <Chris@freshperspective.com>
  Re: pc client ban
          by  Chad <chad@i2net.com>
  Re: pc client ban
          by  Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
  Re: pc client ban
          by  Noah M. Daniels <ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu>
  Re: pc client ban
          by  Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
  Re: Be Careful of the Dark Side Luke
          by  magpie <magpie@magna.com.au>
  Re: Be Careful of the Dark Side Luke
          by  magpie <magpie@magna.com.au>
  Re: Be Careful of the Dark Side Luke
          by  magpie <magpie@magna.com.au>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Be Careful of the Dark Side Luke
From: slawrenson@igs.net
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 20:47:18 +0100

While doing research for an upcoming article on Hotline for a small
regional computer magazine (circ. 50,000), I can=92t help focusing on the
dark side on what appears to be such a good piece of Macintosh only
software.  Last weekend (and I know these numbers are approximate), out
of 25 sites on my tracker, at least 50% of these sites had licensed
software on them.

What gives--is Hotline just a convenient conduit of passing legitimate
software around the world until the software community takes note (and I
assume legal action), or does Hotline serve the Macintosh community in
ways Windoze users can=92t fathom?  I=92d like to here your opinion and w=
ays
you=92ve put this software to legitimate use. =20

This is definitely not a call for spams or e-mail retribution. I
personally think Hotline is a wonderful (and powerful) tool but it is
obvious, Hotline is temporarily in the hands of the Empire.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Be Careful of the Dark Side Luke
From: bit@cyberstreet.com (Jason Yates)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 08:49:42 +0000

slawrenson@igs.net wrote:

> What gives--is Hotline just a convenient conduit of passing legitimate
> software around the world until the software community takes note (and I
> assume legal action), or does Hotline serve the Macintosh community in
> ways Windoze users can’t fathom?  I’d like to here your opinion and ways
> you’ve put this software to legitimate use.

Hotline is a client/server program that is used for file transfer, news,
and chat. What people use it for is up to them. In case you haven't
noticed there is also licensed software on many other kinds of sites.
Hotline is not revolutionizing software piracy by any means.

-Jason

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Be Careful of the Dark Side Luke
From: Adam T <keyclub@tiac.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 20:50:32 -0400

My response is that the use of Hotline for software copying is more visible
because of the trackers... There are many legal trackers. But since you do
not have to register or anything to be on a tracker there is not REAL way
to control it.. Also any file transfering program can and is used to copy
software. This goes for FTP,NNTP,FirstClas, Hermes, even E-Mail. And again
it is more visible in Hotline because of the trackers.. Also I see it as a
good thing that it is being used for software copying, ONLY because it
shows that out of all the software out there hundreds of people choose
Hotline because of it's interface and speed.


Just My $.02


...........................................................
 /|  _
/ | |  |                     Adam Taylor
| |_|  |                     System Administrator
|  _  | O T L I N E
| | |  |COMMUNICATIONS   admin@hotlinesw.com
|_| | |                      	      http://www.hotlinesw.com
    |/
	            



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Be Careful of the Dark Side Luke
From: Phil Hilton <phil@hotlinesw.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 21:01:26 -0500

It wouldn't bew so bad, if teh Warez servers stuck to a WAREZ tracker, and
teh clean ones stayed on clean trackers.

The watrez servers don't realize it, but whenever a big rep fires up
hotline, thinks it's cool, conciders supprting it, they have to see the
warez servers and go away screaming,"NO!!! too risky!"

And when someone asks for a tracker address, DON'T GIVE THEM A TRACKER
KNOWN FOR HAVING WAREZ SERVERS!! It's just as bad as telling the world that
at teh corner of frst and third, you can get the latest version of
Photoshop free of charge. and not only that, you'll find where to get tons
of other free stuff your not supposed to have!

there are plenty of "big" people looking into Hotline, and these idiots
that can't stay in the shadows are ruing it for everyone.

personally.... I have NO PROBLEM with warez WHAT SO EVER.... i just feel
they have a place. And it's NOT scaring the cheeck of an up and coming
communications app.'s reputation.


______________________________
Phil Hilton
Director of Public Relations
Hotline Communications
http://www.HotlineSW.com



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: pc client ban
From: Al <alx@ziplink.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 21:14:44 -0500

I donno about making PC version of Hotline, it's hinks decision after all 
but I'd really like to have a server option "Don't let PC client to 
connect to the server". Seriously, I don't want any PC lamers on my 
server and I think this decision should be up to me.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: pc client ban
From: bit@cyberstreet.com (Jason Yates)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 09:26:55 +0000

Al wrote:

> I donno about making PC version of Hotline, it's hinks decision after all
> but I'd really like to have a server option "Don't let PC client to
> connect to the server". Seriously, I don't want any PC lamers on my
> server and I think this decision should be up to me.

Yeah, because after all, the platform a person uses decides whether or
not they are "lame." Heh..

-Jason

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: pc client ban
From: Chad <chad@i2net.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 18:29:14 -0800

Al wrote:

>I donno about making PC version of Hotline, it's hinks decision after all 
>but I'd really like to have a server option "Don't let PC client to 
>connect to the server".

I would really like a PC client. I'm very pro Mac and run a small ISP. I 
use Mac servers where ever I can. If I can prove that a Hotline server 
can be accessed by Macs AND WinTel users (when I see 'PC', I think Power 
Computing), then I can provide a small news group and chat area for my 
clients to connect to (most are Wintel users).

>Seriously, I don't want any PC lamers on my 
>server and I think this decision should be up to me.

That is entirely up to you. I would like the option only on the grounds 
that I love software with lots of buttons. :)

BTW, does HL provide Allow/Deny settings based on client IP? For a 
directory? It would be nice to designate portions of the HLserver to our 
internal intranet and provide areas only for us. Yes I am aware of IP 
spoofing but Allow/Deny is good for stuff you don't want right out in the 
open but isn't high-security stuff.

Take care.

--chad

====================================
the answers:
1-it's called a snowboard.
2-yes, it's fun.
3-no, it's actually quite easy.
4-yes, I can stop it, and even turn!
5-no, I don't ski anymore.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: HL Port
From: Zorkian <zorkian@earthling.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 21:59:39 -0500

>>I say keep it Mac-only... Gives the PCers a reason to wake up and buy a 
>>real computer.
>
>What sounds better: having a larger market for Hotline, or closing 80%
>of potential users off because we think we're better than them?
>
>-Jason

I vote #2

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Be Careful of the Dark Side Luke
From: Chad <chad@i2net.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 18:01:44 -0800

Let's see.

Faster than FTP.

Easier to use.

Easier to admin.

More features than you can shake a stick at.

Hmmm....

The same thing can be said for SATAN. SATAN is a set of programs that 
will show you security holes in your network. Obviously, to an 
unscrupulous person, the advantages of KNOWING those holes would be 
tremendous.

A piece of software is a lot like a weapon. It's neither good nor evil, 
it's the person controlling it that is.

Software "pirates" will always find ways to use software for their 
purposes. :\

--chad

====================================
the answers:
1-it's called a snowboard.
2-yes, it's fun.
3-no, it's actually quite easy.
4-yes, I can stop it, and even turn!
5-no, I don't ski anymore.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: HL Port
From: fletchie <fletchie@mcs.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 21:53:35 -0000

>>>When you make the PC version of Hotline have it use a diffrent port(s). 
>>>That way, us mac users won't have to go through all these PC files.
>>
>>No way, the PC version is going to be 100% compatibile with the mac and 
>>vice versa.  If you don't want to see PC stuff, then don't go to a PC 
>>server.
>
>I say keep it Mac-only... Gives the PCers a reason to wake up and buy a 
>real computer.

We NEED a win port. It's the only way hotline could ever get really big

  #           # #   #  ##
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#   # ###  ## # # # # # #  #  ## # ##
#   # #  # #  # ##  # # # ### #  #  #
 # #  #  # #  # ##  #  ## #   #   ##
  #   ###  ## # # # ##  #  ## #   #
      #
      ##


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: HL Port
From: bit@cyberstreet.com (Jason Yates)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 10:55:44 +0000

Zorkian wrote:

> >>I say keep it Mac-only... Gives the PCers a reason to wake up and buy a
> >>real computer.

> >What sounds better: having a larger market for Hotline, or closing 80%
> >of potential users off because we think we're better than them?
> >
> >-Jason

> I vote #2

Well then you're an idiot. You're domain name is cool though.. =)

-Jason

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Be Careful of the Dark Side Luke
From: Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 97 15:21:33 +1100

>While doing research for an upcoming article on Hotline for a small
>regional computer magazine (circ. 50,000), I can=92t help focusing on the
>dark side on what appears to be such a good piece of Macintosh only
>software.  Last weekend (and I know these numbers are approximate), out
>of 25 sites on my tracker, at least 50% of these sites had licensed
>software on them.

Lemme copy and paste my official opinion:

Unfortunately, with any piece of software, there will be those people
who use it for something they shouldn't, and there's nothing I can do
about it.

Note that there is nothing surprising about the use of Hotline for
pirating software - pirates have been using FTP, HTTP, NNTP etc for
years to pirate software.


...........................................................
 /|  _
/ | | |                     Adam Hinkley
| |_| |                     CEO/Software Development
|  _  | O T L I N E
| | | |COMMUNICATIONS       adam@HotlineSW.com
|_| | |                     http://www.HotlineSW.com
    |/


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: pc client ban
From: Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 97 15:29:04 +1100

>I donno about making PC version of Hotline, it's hinks decision after all 
>but I'd really like to have a server option "Don't let PC client to 
>connect to the server". Seriously, I don't want any PC lamers on my 
>server and I think this decision should be up to me.

So when I'm using windoze because I'm at some windoze friends place where 
that's the only computer they have, does that make me a "PC lamer" and I 
should be banned from all mac servers?

Hmm the electronic version of racism :)

BTW, PC stands for Personal Computer, and the mac is a personal computer.

...........................................................
 /|  _
/ | | |                     Adam Hinkley
| |_| |                     CEO/Software Development
|  _  | O T L I N E
| | | |COMMUNICATIONS       adam@HotlineSW.com
|_| | |                     http://www.HotlineSW.com
    |/


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: pc client ban
From: Mark Walker <Mrwalker@cris.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 23:58:16 -0500 (EST)

On Thu, 13 Mar 1997, Adam Hinkley wrote:

> BTW, PC stands for Personal Computer, and the mac is a personal computer.

True that is the definition for the acronym, but in this world of vague
names and titles PC has come to mean "not a Mac."  Go figure...


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: pc client ban
From: Chris <Chris@freshperspective.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 22:30:13 -0600

At a minimum a would really like to see a Wintel chat client. While I am 
very pro mac biased many of my customers are wintel users. I am currently 
running chat on my web site with interaction and would like to be able to 
do it with Hotline but since my customers are paying almost specifically 
for chat priviliges I can't afford to provide it in a form that the 
majority can't reach. I could care less about a wintel server but a 
client would make it possible for me to adopt Hotline full time.

-Chris Newsom
chris@freshperspective.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: pc client ban
From: Chad <chad@i2net.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 21:18:04 -0800

Chris wrote:

>At a minimum a would really like to see a Wintel chat client. While I am 
>very pro mac biased many of my customers are wintel users. I am currently 
>running chat on my web site with interaction and would like to be able to 
>do it with Hotline but since my customers are paying almost specifically 
>for chat priviliges I can't afford to provide it in a form that the 
>majority can't reach. I could care less about a wintel server but a 
>client would make it possible for me to adopt Hotline full time.

My sentiments exactly! This almost mirrors my situation. The windows 
server can wait, but I'd REALLY like a windows client.

--chad

====================================
the answers:
1-it's called a snowboard.
2-yes, it's fun.
3-no, it's actually quite easy.
4-yes, I can stop it, and even turn!
5-no, I don't ski anymore.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: pc client ban
From: Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 97 16:58:06 +1100

>My sentiments exactly! This almost mirrors my situation. The windows 
>server can wait, but I'd REALLY like a windows client.

I want both!  And a BeOS version, and a unix server...  :)

...........................................................
 /|  _
/ | | |                     Adam Hinkley
| |_| |                     CEO/Software Development
|  _  | O T L I N E
| | | |COMMUNICATIONS       adam@HotlineSW.com
|_| | |                     http://www.HotlineSW.com
    |/


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: pc client ban
From: "Noah M. Daniels" <ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu>
Date: 13 Mar 97 00:47:51 -0500

>>My sentiments exactly! This almost mirrors my situation. The windows 
>>server can wait, but I'd REALLY like a windows client.
>
>I want both!  And a BeOS version, and a unix server...  :)
>

Don't forget Rhapsody! :-)

Just don't let the Windoze version take away from the MacOS version - that
is, don't skimp on the MacOS version! :-)




-- Noah M. Daniels    
    ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu
   http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/~ndaniel1/
    "He was a brave man who first ate an oyster"
      - Jonathan Swift

"Wonder is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins in wonder" -
Socrates




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: pc client ban
From: Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 97 17:13:27 +1100

>>>My sentiments exactly! This almost mirrors my situation. The windows 
>>>server can wait, but I'd REALLY like a windows client.
>>
>>I want both!  And a BeOS version, and a unix server...  :)
>>
>
>Don't forget Rhapsody! :-)

When I can get a CD with rhapsody on it, and when it doesn't crash for a 
whole day, and when CodeWarrior for Rhapsody doesn't crash for a whole 
day - that's when I'll start a Rhapsody version :)

>Just don't let the Windoze version take away from the MacOS version - that
>is, don't skimp on the MacOS version! :-)

No, I'm intending to make all of the versions very very similar, even in 
terms of release dates.

...........................................................
 /|  _
/ | | |                     Adam Hinkley
| |_| |                     CEO/Software Development
|  _  | O T L I N E
| | | |COMMUNICATIONS       adam@HotlineSW.com
|_| | |                     http://www.HotlineSW.com
    |/


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Be Careful of the Dark Side Luke
From: magpie <magpie@magna.com.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:32:14 +1000

>>While doing research for an upcoming article on Hotline for a small
>>regional computer magazine (circ. 50,000), I can=92t help focusing on the
>>dark side on what appears to be such a good piece of Macintosh only
>>software.  Last weekend (and I know these numbers are approximate), out
>>of 25 sites on my tracker, at least 50% of these sites had licensed
>>software on them.


Yeah, good isn't it!!!!!  =3D)



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Be Careful of the Dark Side Luke
From: magpie <magpie@magna.com.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:39:22 +1000

>While doing research for an upcoming article on Hotline for a small
>regional computer magazine (circ. 50,000), I can=92t help focusing on the
>dark side on what appears to be such a good piece of Macintosh only
>software.  Last weekend (and I know these numbers are approximate), out
>of 25 sites on my tracker, at least 50% of these sites had licensed
>software on them.
>
>What gives--is Hotline just a convenient conduit of passing legitimate
>software around the world until the software community takes note (and I
>assume legal action), or does Hotline serve the Macintosh community in
>ways Windoze users can=92t fathom?  I=92d like to here your opinion and way=
s
>you=92ve put this software to legitimate use.
>
>This is definitely not a call for spams or e-mail retribution. I
>personally think Hotline is a wonderful (and powerful) tool but it is
>obvious, Hotline is temporarily in the hands of the Empire.


The second most beautiful aspect of Hotline is that Micro$loth will hate it
once it goes PC.



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Be Careful of the Dark Side Luke
From: magpie <magpie@magna.com.au>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:42:35 +1000

>Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:39:22 +1000
>To: The Hotline Users Mailing List <Hotline@www.fwparker.org>
>From: magpie <magpie@magna.com.au>
>Subject: Re: Be Careful of the Dark Side Luke
>Cc:
>Bcc:
>X-Attachments:
>
>>While doing research for an upcoming article on Hotline for a small
>>regional computer magazine (circ. 50,000), I can=92t help focusing on the
>>dark side on what appears to be such a good piece of Macintosh only
>>software.  Last weekend (and I know these numbers are approximate), out
>>of 25 sites on my tracker, at least 50% of these sites had licensed
>>software on them.
>>
>>What gives--is Hotline just a convenient conduit of passing legitimate
>>software around the world until the software community takes note (and I
>>assume legal action), or does Hotline serve the Macintosh community in
>>ways Windoze users can=92t fathom?  I=92d like to here your opinion and wa=
ys
>>you=92ve put this software to legitimate use.
>>
>>This is definitely not a call for spams or e-mail retribution. I
>>personally think Hotline is a wonderful (and powerful) tool but it is
>>obvious, Hotline is temporarily in the hands of the Empire.
>
>
>The second most beautiful aspect of Hotline is that Micro$loth will hate
>it once it goes PC.
>
>

Sorry, previous error...correction follows,

The second most beautiful aspect of Hotline is that Microfa$ci$t will hate
it once it goes PC.



----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of The Hotline Users Digest


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