Wednesday, March 12, 1997 12:31:23 AM Message From: The Hotline Users Mailing,Hotline@lists.fwparker.org,Internet Subject: The Hotline Users Digest #56 - 03/11/97 To: Geoff Le Feuvre The Hotline Users Mailing List ,Internet The Hotline Users Digest #56 - Tuesday, March 11, 1997 Feature request for Client by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?= Re: The Hotline Users Digest #54 - 03/10/97 by Bengt Stenstr Re: The Hotline Users Digest #55 - 03/11/97 by Eric Wittlake Re: Feature request for Client by Michael Sheets Re: Suggestions by Brian Thomas Drag and Drop File Transfers? by bri.cors Re: The Hotline Users Digest #54 - 03/10/97 by Phil Hilton Queue et resume problems by Philippe Martin Re: The Hotline Users Digest #54 - 03/10/97 by Cody Charette Re: Queue et resume problems by Adam Hinkley Re: Drag and Drop File Transfers? by Adam Hinkley Re: The Hotline Users Digest #55 - 03/11/97 by Adam Hinkley Re: Suggestions by Adam Hinkley Re: The Hotline Users Digest #55 - 03/11/97 by Burn Re: Suggestions by Brian Thomas Hotline Server Questions by Kevin Pfohl Re: Files by fletchie Re: The Hotline Users Digest #55 - 03/11/97 by Matthew Chojnacki ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Feature request for Client From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?= Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 11:28:16 +0100 (MET) Hello! I have a suggestion for the HotLine Client: It would be nice to be able to view the content of textfiles directly on screen, instead of having them downloaded and then displayed. Think of it as downloading a file to a window instead of to the local disk. Now, nicest of all would be to be able to view styled text this way. With pictures... and no 32K limit... ;-) Sincrely, /dario ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: The Hotline Users Digest #54 - 03/10/97 From: Bengt Stenstr Date: Tue, 11 Mar 97 15:08:47 +0100 How do you make money running a (voluntary) server (your own)????? /Bengt S ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: The Hotline Users Digest #55 - 03/11/97 From: Eric Wittlake Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 09:49:39 -0500 (EST) A couple comments, hopefully quick. First, while it would be nice to have all these new features that people on this list keep talking about, there is a lot to be said for a system that is small and easy to use. I can run the Hotline Server on my machine almost unnoticably (sp?) in the background. That is worth giving up quite a few other features to me. Index searches.. How about a text file that is in the server folder that is searched, rather than actually searching all the files on CD's or remote volumes? Then it would be up to the admins of a server to keep up the index, some sites would offer it, others wouldn't, but it wouldn't incredibly slow down the system when users were doing searches. You could probably even have a small utility just for the purpose of creating such an index. Anyone know how Hinks is going to be implementing file descriptions? Is it from the comments window, stuffit comments for files that are stuffed? Will you just get the comments for a file one file at a time, or for a whole folder at once? Just curious.. Thanks Eric -- Signitures are for them ejucated folks ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Feature request for Client From: Michael Sheets Date: Tue, 11 Mar 97 10:12:30 -0600 >I have a suggestion for the HotLine Client: >It would be nice to be able to view the content of textfiles directly on >screen, instead of having them downloaded and then displayed. >Think of it as downloading a file to a window instead of to the local >disk. >Now, nicest of all would be to be able to view styled text this way. With >pictures... and no 32K limit... ;-) It's allready coming don't think it made it into b21 but it's on hinks's infamaous "to-do list" ---> Michael Sheets Infinite Designs ---> 911 Meadows Drive msheets@wwisp.com ---> Birmingham, AL 35235 "For one to know how smart they really are one must only look at how stupid they were five years ago." - Michael Sheets ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Suggestions From: Brian Thomas Date: Tue, 11 Mar 97 12:18:55 -0000 >>What I thought would be useful in Hotline is the ability to use multiple >>machines (with multiple ip numbers) as one server, with one chat, news and >>users windows. One machine could be used as the main server, and handle the >>news, chat etc. and a portion of the server's files, the same as the >>current server does. The other machines would be used to handle the >>additional portions of the servers files. > > >umm, ya.. It's called appleshare... The point of this suggestion was not to simply increase the size of the servers files, but to effectively increase the servers bandwidth. Appleshare does not even come close to doing this. Then you just have the files coming from a remote machine to your machine, and then to the client. It only slows down the process. What I was talking about is letting the client connect to the second machine without going through the main server, so it doesnt take away from its bandwidth > >How many connections do you want your server to support? How many >simultaineous downloads? > >On a 604 processor, given enough bandwidth, you can support at least a >hundred connections, if not 200. I have been on quite a few servers, one running on a T3 line and a 9500 with 100MB of ram dedicated to the server, and whenever you get over 50-100 people, the server starts dramatically slowing down. If this wouldnt be too hard to implement, it could be an easy way to expand the capacity of a server. But like I said in the original message, it was just an idea. David ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Drag and Drop File Transfers? From: "bri.cors" Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 13:35:59 -0500 This would be GREAT! Maybe I am missing something, but I think to be able to do drag and drop file transfers would speed up my work with Hotline a LOT. I mean, files for UL/DL are queued anyways, it'd be great if we could do UL's with drag-n-drop somehow... I love it though, and am converting MANY. :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: The Hotline Users Digest #54 - 03/10/97 From: Phil Hilton Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 15:59:25 -0500 >How do you make money running a (voluntary) server (your own)????? > >/Bengt S who said ANYTHING about making money???? :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Queue et resume problems From: Philippe Martin Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 23:10:44 +0100 (MET) Hi Adam, I noticed that if an error happens when HL tries to d/l a file (ie. maximum number of d/l reached on server) HL cancels the failed transfer, then processes the following one in the queue, cancels it if the same error happens again, and so on. At least, the all queue is lost. It would be more friendly to prompt user about keeping the failed transfer in queue (to try again later) or cancel it. When I resume a d/l on an other disk than the one where HL is installed, so I have to option-click the d/l button, the system prompts me for replacing the file and it's impossible to resume (of course the workaround is to have an alias called Downloads in the HL folder, pointing to the folder where the file to resume is, but we can only have one. Regards, Philippe ____________________________________________________________________ Philippe (FL!P) MARTIN mailto:flip@bart.fr http://www.bart.fr/~flip/ Rejoignez CITADEL EF-France http://www.citadeleff.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: The Hotline Users Digest #54 - 03/10/97 From: Cody Charette Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 15:15:10 -0800 You people need a better ISP, Netcom simply rox as this paste shows, my time online is about 15dayz a month out of the possible 30. Tue Jan 7 01:24:25 1997 PDT 1day12hr48min56sec Fresno-CA (Analog) Netcom doesn't censor limit or squelch as long as you a program like MailSniffer for instance, the 15 minute idle is the phone company I think. If you let a phone ring for 15 minutes it automatically disconnects and if there is no traffic on the phone line the phone company drops you I THINK. If you get bigger and better ISP's with stable systems like 7.7a3 then you can essentially have a static IP for nothing, couple that with a program like AHOY! that great new program to peer-peer communicate and wa la it works. Right now I am 204.32.155.d Buffilobil Sofakinbd if anyone wants to get hold or me. >My ISP limits me in 3 ways: (which is why I wrote IP Re.mailer) >>--------------------------- >>* Connect and get a Dynamic IP >>* Disconnect if 'idle' for 45 minutes >>* Disconnect if 'connected' for 8 hours > >ya mean.... some people get MORE than 8 hours... NETSCAPE FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Queue et resume problems From: Adam Hinkley Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 11:05:16 +1100 >I noticed that if an error happens when HL tries to d/l a file (ie. maximum >number of d/l reached on server) HL cancels the failed transfer, then >processes the following one in the queue, cancels it if the same error >happens again, and so on. At least, the all queue is lost. It would be more >friendly to prompt user about keeping the failed transfer in queue (to try >again later) or cancel it. It would be even better if you could queue downloads at the server end, and when a download slot becomes free, the server would give it to whoever has been waiting the longest (NOT whoever is next in the queue). And when a download starts and finishes, how long you have been waiting gets reset to zero. >When I resume a d/l on an other disk than the one where HL is installed, so >I have to option-click the d/l button, the system prompts me for replacing >the file and it's impossible to resume Click Replace. If the file is a partial download, Hotline will then ask you if you want to resume or replace it. ........................................................... /| _ / | | | Adam Hinkley | |_| | CEO/Software Development | _ | O T L I N E | | | |COMMUNICATIONS hinks@netspace.net.au |_| | | http://netspace.net.au/~hinks/ |/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Drag and Drop File Transfers? From: Adam Hinkley Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 11:05:36 +1100 >This would be GREAT! Maybe I am missing something, but I think to be >able to do drag and drop file transfers would speed up my work with Hotline >a LOT. I mean, files for UL/DL are queued anyways, it'd be great if we >could do UL's with drag-n-drop somehow... With b21 (coming out soon), you can drag&drop to upload. d&d to download isn't finished yet. ........................................................... /| _ / | | | Adam Hinkley | |_| | CEO/Software Development | _ | O T L I N E | | | |COMMUNICATIONS hinks@netspace.net.au |_| | | http://netspace.net.au/~hinks/ |/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: The Hotline Users Digest #55 - 03/11/97 From: Adam Hinkley Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 11:07:50 +1100 >Index searches.. How about a text file that is in the server folder that >is searched, rather than actually searching all the files on CD's or >remote volumes? Then it would be up to the admins of a server to keep up >the index, some sites would offer it, others wouldn't, but it wouldn't >incredibly slow down the system when users were doing searches. You could >probably even have a small utility just for the purpose of creating such >an index. Even better, what if the tracker was extended such that it could search for files as well - like Archie or MacSearch. The servers would periodically generate a listing of all of their files, and send that off to the tracker for fast searches. >Anyone know how Hinks is going to be implementing file descriptions? In b21, the comments are from the Get Info window in the Finder. ........................................................... /| _ / | | | Adam Hinkley | |_| | CEO/Software Development | _ | O T L I N E | | | |COMMUNICATIONS hinks@netspace.net.au |_| | | http://netspace.net.au/~hinks/ |/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Suggestions From: Adam Hinkley Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 11:10:19 +1100 >>On a 604 processor, given enough bandwidth, you can support at least a >>hundred connections, if not 200. > >I have been on quite a few servers, one running on a T3 line and a 9500 >with 100MB of ram dedicated to the server, and whenever you get over >50-100 people, the server starts dramatically slowing down. If this >wouldnt be too hard to implement, it could be an easy way to expand the >capacity of a server. But like I said in the original message, it was >just an idea. On a 604, the processor should be able to easily cope, so the slow down is most likely the result of all the bandwidth being used. Thus adding another server is not going to make it any better. ........................................................... /| _ / | | | Adam Hinkley | |_| | CEO/Software Development | _ | O T L I N E | | | |COMMUNICATIONS hinks@netspace.net.au |_| | | http://netspace.net.au/~hinks/ |/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: The Hotline Users Digest #55 - 03/11/97 From: Burn Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 16:13:47 -0800 >A couple comments, hopefully quick. > >First, while it would be nice to have all these new features that people >on this list keep talking about, there is a lot to be said for a system >that is small and easy to use. I can run the Hotline Server on my machine >almost unnoticably (sp?) in the background. That is worth giving up quite >a few other features to me. > >Index searches.. How about a text file that is in the server folder that >is searched, rather than actually searching all the files on CD's or >remote volumes? Then it would be up to the admins of a server to keep up >the index, some sites would offer it, others wouldn't, but it wouldn't >incredibly slow down the system when users were doing searches. You could >probably even have a small utility just for the purpose of creating such >an index. > >Anyone know how Hinks is going to be implementing file descriptions? Is it >from the comments window, stuffit comments for files that are stuffed? >Will you just get the comments for a file one file at a time, or for a >whole folder at once? Just curious.. Thanks > >Eric Eric, File descriptions have been implemented in b21 and are very nice. You get them individually and are stored in the comments of the file or folder. While downloading a file, it stores the IP of the server you are downloading from in the comments. As soon as it is done, it changes to the file description that you had looked at on the server. When you upload that file to another server, the file description will be transferred as well. A very nice feature. ........................................................... /| _ / | | | Trevor Covert | |_| | Macline, File Management | _ | O T L I N E trevor@HotlineSW.com | | | |COMMUNICATIONS |_| | | |/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Suggestions From: Brian Thomas Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 08:07:21 -0600 >>>On a 604 processor, given enough bandwidth, you can support at least a >>>hundred connections, if not 200. >> >>I have been on quite a few servers, one running on a T3 line and a 9500 >>with 100MB of ram dedicated to the server, and whenever you get over >>50-100 people, the server starts dramatically slowing down. If this >>wouldnt be too hard to implement, it could be an easy way to expand the >>capacity of a server. But like I said in the original message, it was >>just an idea. > >On a 604, the processor should be able to easily cope, so the slow down >is most likely the result of all the bandwidth being used. Thus adding >another server is not going to make it any better. No, not if the other server was on the same line. But if the servers were on separate lines, the bandwidth would be increased. For instance, I work at a university, so it would be a simple matter to put up two servers at different locations and on separate T1 lines. Then, all of the file transfers to the second server dont take up any of the bandwidth of the main server. The same could be done by two friends at different locations who wanted to put up a server. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Hotline Server Questions From: Kevin Pfohl Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 22:30:21 -0500 Hi! I have a few questions about the Hotline Server Software. 1. I have a Hotline Server on an Intranet running on a 68K Machine. When I run the Hotline Tracker (v 1.0) at the same time on the same machine, the server starts to do what B19 did (the server will work fine for a little while, then slow to a crawl for a while, then work fine, etc.) Is there any solution? Will B21 fix the problem? 2. How much should a Cable Modem cost? I'm considering connecting my Hotline Server (My Server has all of the Mac Evangelism stuff, Applications, Games, Utilities, etc. NO WAREZ!) If anyone has a Cable Modem or has information on a Cable Modem, please tell me how much the Installation costed/costs, the 'Modem' itself costs (The Thing that hooks your Network to your Cable Line), and how much the service is. Thanks, Kevin Pfohl kspfohl@localnet.com bx924@freenet.buffalo.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Files From: fletchie Date: Tue, 11 Mar 97 22:31:52 -0000 >>>>>With that out of the way, how about a find function >>>>>for files? >>>> >>>>Find File is on my to do list. The only problem is that searching the >>>>files could be quite a performance hit - especially if there's CDs to be > >>>>searched. >>>> >>> >>>This could be solved by having the server index the file area at startup >or >>>at periodic intervals. This might not catch new uploads, but people >usually >>>aren't searching new uploads but rather older stuff. Not a perfect >>>solution, but... >> >>"index the file area" is very easy to say, but what exactly do you mean? >> >>Grab a copy of all of the file names and maybe the comments too? Why >>would that be any faster than asking the file system directly? > >Because almost anything is faster than asking the slow, 68K-code file >manager to do a search. Skip the comments, though. Just do it like Exite. The server creats an index of the files and comments, and as uploads are made it just adds on to the index, that way it doesn't have to re-write the whole thing. _____ _____ _______ _____ _ _ __ _ _______ ______ _ _ | | |_____] | | |____/ | \ | |______ |_____/ \ / |_____| | | __|__ | \_ | \_| |______ | \_ \/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: The Hotline Users Digest #55 - 03/11/97 From: Matthew Chojnacki Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 00:10:47 -0500 >While downloading a file, it stores the IP of the server you are >downloading from in the comments. As soon as it is done, it changes to the >file description that you had looked at on the server. Yeah!!!!!! I was waiting for this to be implemented. Thanks a lot Adam!! Matt Chojnacki mchojnac@cyberia.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of The Hotline Users Digest --- Internet Message Header Follows --- Received: from www.fwparker.org by bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca (SMI-8.6/SMI-4.0) id AAA16725; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 00:34:51 -0500 Message-Id: <199703120534.AAA16725.16725@bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca> From: The Hotline Users Mailing List To: The Hotline Users Mailing List Subject: The Hotline Users Digest #56 - 03/11/97 Date: Tue, 11 Mar 97 23:31:23 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Precedence: Bulk X-List-Software: LetterRip 1.1b1 by Fog City Software, Inc.