Monday, March 10, 1997 7:18:57 PM
          Message
  From:          The Hotline Users Mailing,Hotline@lists.fwparker.org,Internet
  Subject:   The Hotline Users Digest #54 - 03/10/97
  To:            Geoff Le Feuvre
                 The Hotline Users Mailing List <Hotline@lists.fwparker.org>,Internet
The Hotline Users Digest #54 - Monday, March 10, 1997

  Re:Toolbar Idea
          by  Shane Crosby <s-crosby@worldnet.att.net>
  Re:Toolbar Idea
          by  <pramsey@mail.tds.net>
  Re: Hotline Server
          by  Phil Hilton <cheesy@cybertours.com>
  Re: Hotline Server
          by  LaserLinX <lsrlnx@cp.duluth.mn.us>
  Re: Hotline Server
          by  Phil Hilton <cheesy@cybertours.com>
  Re: Hotline Server
          by  LaserLinX <lsrlnx@cp.duluth.mn.us>
  Re: Hotline Server
          by  Michael Sheets <msheets@wwisp.com>
  Re:Toolbar Idea
          by  Judy Perry <jperryl@ecs.fullerton.edu>
  MacWEEK!
          by  David Murphy <davidmurphy@earthlink.net>
  MacWEEK!
          by  David Murphy <davidmurphy@earthlink.net>
  Hotline hangs .... ?
          by  Rowe, Lorin <lorin.rowe@attws.com>
  Re: Macline tracker....
          by  Kevin Ballard <kevin@sb.org>
  Re: Macline tracker....
          by  Burn <rcovert@wolfenet.com>
  Re: The Hotline Users Digest #52 - 03/07/97
          by  David Padula <pads@epix.net>
  Re: scrolling/pop-ups
          by  Bengt Stenstr <bengt.stenstrom@swipnet.se>
  RE: A couple of suggestions
          by  <mrwhite@fine-line.com>
  Suggestions
          by  David Creech <d-creech@students.uiuc.edu>
  Re: Suggestions
          by  Phil Hilton <phil@hotlinesw.com>
  AMBROSIA HOTLINE SERVER!!!
          by  Phil Hilton <phil@hotlinesw.com>
  Re: AMBROSIA HOTLINE SERVER!!!
          by  Michael Sheets <msheets@wwisp.com>
  Re: Suggestions
          by  Zorkian <zorkian@earthling.net>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re:Toolbar Idea
From: s-crosby@worldnet.att.net (Shane Crosby)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 06:42:32 -0500

>I think you're missing the point, its for people who don't know what the
>button does. Also it only has to say "Files". Also PRO programs like the
>$900 Director 5.0 and Adobe Photoshop 4.0 uses them too.
>

You know, I think there is a bit of a difference between the Color
Dodge/Color Burn, Smouge, and 50 other tools that Photoshop has and "Files"

MacCroz



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re:Toolbar Idea
From: pramsey@mail.tds.net
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 07:10:32 -0400

>>I think you're missing the point, its for people who don't know what the
>>button does. Also it only has to say "Files". Also PRO programs like the
>>$900 Director 5.0 and Adobe Photoshop 4.0 uses them too.
>>
>
>You know, I think there is a bit of a difference between the Color
>Dodge/Color Burn, Smouge, and 50 other tools that Photoshop has and "Files"
>
>MacCroz

True but I have seen a lot of toolbars with really really cool backgrounds
and buttons but a few of those have buttons that look alike, e.g. hinks
toolbar. The labels would help in these cases but the real choice is up to
hinks, he is on this mailing list and has heard both sides, I'm sure he'll
do what he thinks is best.

Now we should get on to other things like some way for an admin to edit
news files on a remote server, unless its been done already, hinks?


--
 ____________________________________________________
|                      TOGTOG=83=81                      |\
|                                                    | |
|                Paul Ramsey | pramsey@mail.tds.net  | |
|  Knoxville, Tennessee, USa | They can take away    | |
|  our freedom but they can't take away who we are.  | |
|____________________________________________________| |
\_____________________________________________________\|



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Hotline Server
From: Phil Hilton <cheesy@cybertours.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:50:02 -0500

>It's designed for
>someone with a dynamic IP and a connection time limit.  It's called IP
>Re.mailer

	If you're on a dilup with a timeout limit, just set your mail
client to check mail every X minutes in the Background...  OR get
IPNetMonitor (Macline:Files:Net:Misc [shareware, 30 day demo {code
available numerous places, but you didn't hear that from me}]) and have it
ping a server (not your own) once every X minutes.. either way, as far as
your ISP is concerened, your doing somethihng, and you shouldn't trigger
the timout...

	IPNetmonitor is a good thing to have all the way around. It does
pings, trace route, /whois, monitor (even tho I can't get it to work), and
it maintains a log window. Nice GUI too. :)




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Hotline Server
From: LaserLinX <lsrlnx@cp.duluth.mn.us>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:33:13 -0600

>>It's designed for
>>someone with a dynamic IP and a connection time limit.  It's called IP
>>Re.mailer
>
>	If you're on a dilup with a timeout limit, just set your mail
>client to check mail every X minutes in the Background...  OR get
>IPNetMonitor (Macline:Files:Net:Misc [shareware, 30 day demo {code
>available numerous places, but you didn't hear that from me}]) and have it
>ping a server (not your own) once every X minutes.. either way, as far as
>your ISP is concerened, your doing somethihng, and you shouldn't trigger
>the timout...
>
>	IPNetmonitor is a good thing to have all the way around. It does
>pings, trace route, /whois, monitor (even tho I can't get it to work), and
>it maintains a log window. Nice GUI too. :)

My ISP limits me in 3 ways:  (which is why I wrote IP Re.mailer)
---------------------------
*  Connect and get a Dynamic IP
*  Disconnect if 'idle' for 45 minutes
*  Disconnect if 'connected' for 8 hours

I agree, IP NetMonitor is a very nice program.  I use it myself.  =DF-)

           ___     ___   __                         \     /
          ||  \   //  | || |                         \   /
          ||   \ //   | || |    Welcome to MacLinX    \ /
          || |\ \/ /| | || | ------------------------  =D7
          || |\\  /|| | || |  Linking you to the Mac  / \
          || | \\/ || | || |                         /   \
          || |     || | || |_____                   /     \
          ||_|     ||_| ||_______|----------------|>       \
                                                            \
          LaserLinX           lsrlnx@cp.duluth.mn.us         \
      Jeffrey J. Kouba      irc.webmaster.com #MacLinX        \
---------------------------------------------------------------/



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Hotline Server
From: Phil Hilton <cheesy@cybertours.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 10:45:03 -0500

>My ISP limits me in 3 ways:  (which is why I wrote IP Re.mailer)
>---------------------------
>*  Connect and get a Dynamic IP
>*  Disconnect if 'idle' for 45 minutes
>*  Disconnect if 'connected' for 8 hours

ya mean.... some people get MORE than 8 hours sleep??? WOW! Wish _I_ could :)

(aka- DAMN! forgot about that)



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Hotline Server
From: LaserLinX <lsrlnx@cp.duluth.mn.us>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:55:57 -0600

>>My ISP limits me in 3 ways:  (which is why I wrote IP Re.mailer)
>>---------------------------
>>*  Connect and get a Dynamic IP
>>*  Disconnect if 'idle' for 45 minutes
>>*  Disconnect if 'connected' for 8 hours
>
>ya mean.... some people get MORE than 8 hours sleep??? WOW! Wish _I_ could =
:)
>
>(aka- DAMN! forgot about that)

I don't usually get 8 hours of sleep either.  Plus, some people aren't home
24 hours a day, 7 days a week.  =DF-)

  __                                 __
 /| |                               /| |                        \    /
| | |           LaserLinX          | | |  "Life is a terminal    \  /
| | |       Jeffrey J. Kouba       | | |  sexually transmitted    \/
| | |                              | | |  disease."               /\
| | |    lsrlnx@cp.duluth.mn.us    | | |_____                    /  \
| | |  irc.webmaster.com #MacLinX  | |_______|-----------------|>    \
| | |_______                       |/_______/                         \
| |_________|----------------------------------------------------------/
|/_________/



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Hotline Server
From: Michael Sheets <msheets@wwisp.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 97 12:21:02 -0600

>My ISP limits me in 3 ways:  (which is why I wrote IP Re.mailer)
>---------------------------
>*  Connect and get a Dynamic IP
>*  Disconnect if 'idle' for 45 minutes
>*  Disconnect if 'connected' for 8 hours

You lucky dog!
 My ISP:
  *  Connect and get a Dynamic IP
  *  Disconnect if 'idle' for _10_ minutes
  *  Disconnect if 'connected' for _3_ hours

See you have it easy!

--->  Michael Sheets         Infinite Designs
--->  911 Meadows Drive      msheets@wwisp.com    
--->  Birmingham, AL 35235

"For one to know how smart they really are one must only look at how 
stupid they were five years ago." - Michael Sheets


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re:Toolbar Idea
From: Judy Perry <jperryl@ecs.fullerton.edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 11:14:50 -0800 (PST)



On Thu, 6 Mar 1997, Zorkian wrote:

> >>I suppose I could do those "tooltips" thingeys that Windows and Netscape 
> >>uses (little window with name that appears when you linger over a 
> >>button), but I find them annoying...
> >
> >Yeah, they suck. Don't use them. It'd be like this, you move your mouse over
> >the button named "Files" and something pops up that says "The Files Button"
> >or something like that, as if we didn't already know that!
> 
> why not use balloon help instead?
> 
> Zorkian
> 
--Haven't even had a chance to check out Hotline yet, but balloon help
  sucks too, only you have the option of turning it off.   

Judy Perry



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: MacWEEK!
From: David Murphy <davidmurphy@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 97 18:42:22 -0500

HEY! EVERYONE!

Check out MacWEEK's article on Hotline!

<http://www.macweek.com/mw_1110/gw_hotline.html>

Oh, and by the way: After you've read it, feel free to praise the 
wonderful and talented author for her keen insight (after all, she chose 
to write about Hotline.)
<"Her Supreme Coolness Monica Campbell" monica_campbell@macweek.com>. :-)

Thanks!

--David, your esteemed Media Relations director

...........................................................
 /|  _
/ | | |                     David Murphy
| |_| |                     Media Relations Director
|  _  | O T L I N E
| | | |COMMUNICATIONS       murphy@HotlineSW.com
|_| | |                     http://www.HotlineSW.com
    |/

To receive the Hotline b20 Press Release, send a message to
david@HotlineSW.com with a subject of "send Hotline b20 PR"


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: MacWEEK!
From: David Murphy <davidmurphy@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 97 18:42:39 -0500

HEY! EVERYONE!

Check out MacWEEK's article on Hotline!

<http://www.macweek.com/mw_1110/gw_hotline.html>

Oh, and by the way: After you've read it, feel free to praise the 
wonderful and talented author for her keen insight (after all, she chose 
to write about Hotline.)
<"Her Supreme Coolness Monica Campbell" monica_campbell@macweek.com>. :-)

Thanks!

--David, your esteemed Media Relations director

...........................................................
 /|  _
/ | | |                     David Murphy
| |_| |                     Media Relations Director
|  _  | O T L I N E
| | | |COMMUNICATIONS       murphy@HotlineSW.com
|_| | |                     http://www.HotlineSW.com
    |/

To receive the Hotline b20 Press Release, send a message to
david@HotlineSW.com with a subject of "send Hotline b20 PR"


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Hotline hangs .... ?
From: "Rowe, Lorin" <lorin.rowe@attws.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 15:44:04 -0800

I have had problems with the client hanging on uploads especially at
slower rates.

I have a power PC 7100/80 with direct internet access.  40mb memory, OS
7.6, few extentions.

I can ftp files all day long at 100kb/sec to other sites.  Any
suggestions?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Macline tracker....
From: Kevin Ballard <kevin@sb.org>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 97 18:53:03 -0500

>   If you have a server and it is clean ( no warez, no porn), then please
>use the Macline tracker <tracker.fwparker.org> and make it THE tracker for
>clean sites.

I put my server on on the Macline <tracker.fwparker.org> and then I 
connected to the Macline tracker but an alert box came up and said 
"Remote host refused connection". Why?


           -Kevin Ballard

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
KEVIN BALLARD
Internet Email-Kevin@sb.org
AOL Email-Kevinmunk@aol.com
Internet web page-http://www.sb.org/kevin/
Hotline Server-Slartibartfast.sb.org OR 207.60.167.130
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Macline tracker....
From: Burn <rcovert@wolfenet.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 17:25:21 -0800

>>   If you have a server and it is clean ( no warez, no porn), then please
>>use the Macline tracker <tracker.fwparker.org> and make it THE tracker for
>>clean sites.
>
>I put my server on on the Macline <tracker.fwparker.org> and then I
>connected to the Macline tracker but an alert box came up and said
>"Remote host refused connection". Why?

The tracker was down momentarily.  It should work now....


...........................................................
 /|  _
/ | | |                     Trevor Covert
| |_| |                     Macline, File Management
|  _  | O T L I N E         trevor@HotlineSW.com
| | | |COMMUNICATIONS
|_| | |
    |/



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: The Hotline Users Digest #52 - 03/07/97
From: David Padula <pads@epix.net>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 21:52:54 -0500

Can somebody please tell me how to unsubscribe from this list??




_____________________________________________________________
If beauty is in the eye of the beholder....
....then if I control the beholder does that mean I am beautiful....
...or does that mean that I am just the beholder and I have nothing to
be looked upon at all?

Destiny is what you make of it,
Not what it makes of you.

	Please send mail to pads@pond.com even if you get another address
in the message.

                      http://www.pond.com/~pads






----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: scrolling/pop-ups
From: Bengt Stenstr <bengt.stenstrom@swipnet.se>
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 97 06:17:13 +0100

When choosing "Connect", would it be possible to have pop-up box with all 
the addresses directly, instead of getting the dialog box as is the case 
now? Maybe you could rename the button, "Connect to..."?

Speaking of the pop-up box (with all the addresses, that pops up, when 
you click the arrow in the dialog box) seems a bit unstable. For 
instance, if you have a multitude of addresses you are not able to 
"scroll" outside the screen, you are only able to choose the addresses 
that are visible on the screen.

/Bengt Stenstrom
bengt.stenstrom@swipnet.se

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: A couple of suggestions
From: mrwhite@fine-line.com
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 19:01:33 -0500

On Wed, 05 Mar 1997 Shannon Lee Settles made the following excellent
suggestions:



double-clicking on a word (or more importantly an IP) selects the whole
word


select-dragging over text should continue regardless of whether the
cursor remains in the text field or not


delay the enabling of the OK button on personal messages


a Tracker pop-up list with multiple Tracker sites


the ability to print from chat, news and file windows



been there.. done those... I couldn't have said it better myself.... 

thank you Shannon!



<<HamrSlamR>



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Suggestions
From: "David Creech" <d-creech@students.uiuc.edu>
Date: 9 Mar 97 20:24:36 -0600

Adam,

I have a couple of suggestions for Hotline- feel free to disregard them
because they might be a little too ambitious :)

What I thought would be useful in Hotline is the ability to use multiple
machines (with multiple ip numbers) as one server, with one chat, news and
users windows. One machine could be used as the main server, and handle the
news, chat etc. and a portion of the server's files, the same as the
current server does. The other machines would be used to handle the
additional portions of the servers files. My thought on implementing this
would be to have a hotline alias, which points to a file or folder on the
secondary machine. The alias would have the IP address of the secondary
machine. When the hotline client requests the file or folder, the main
server would send the client the IP address and location of the file. The
client would then be responsible for contacting the secondary server. The
secondary server would then do the file transfer with the client. This
method would allow a server to expand and share the load across multiple
machines and IP connections.

Anyway, I dont know if this would work or not, but if it does I thought
that it would be useful.

My second suggestion was the elimination of a problem that I have had with
the server software, and I am not sure if you are aware of it. When someone
tries to access an alias in the files folder that points to a non-existant
volume, the server puts a finder dialog up to insert the volume or connect
to it via AppleTalk if it is a remote server. If you are not present at the
server, the dialog stays on the screen, and eventually stops the server.
When this happens, the client gets a OpenTransport timeout error. This has
happened to me a few times when I had an alias to a Jaz drive that had
ejected itself on restart. If there is anyway to disable the dialog after a
time and let the server continue to work, the problem would be eliminated.

Hope that some of this was of help,
David Creech




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Suggestions
From: Phil Hilton <phil@hotlinesw.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 11:45:06 -0500

>What I thought would be useful in Hotline is the ability to use multiple
>machines (with multiple ip numbers) as one server, with one chat, news and
>users windows. One machine could be used as the main server, and handle the
>news, chat etc. and a portion of the server's files, the same as the
>current server does. The other machines would be used to handle the
>additional portions of the servers files.


umm, ya.. It's called appleshare...

>
>the server puts a finder dialog up to insert the volume or connect
>to it via AppleTalk if it is a remote server. If you are not present at the
>server, the dialog stays on the screen, and eventually stops the server.

get "okey dokey". to dismiss dialogs. it presses return after a user set
time. But i think on "please insert the disk..." boxes, pressing return
tries to tell it the disk is in teh drive, and it just comes back when it
finds it's not...

sooooooo....  place some tape over the jaz drive. assuming that the jaz has
the auto inject thing (i THINK it does)...  it will suck the disc back in
when it bouces off the tape....


and FYI: it's teh FINDER that shows that dialog, so hotline can't be
altered to fix it. And if it was hotline that did it, it would be like
every other aspect of the program, where the mac would still be allowed to
do other functions while it was being displayed. (like it still displays
incoming chat, while your holding down the mouse button doing other
things...), but it's the finder that brings the entire mac to a hault.
Maybe sys8 will have enough multi-threading and fix this.  Anyone running a
server on tempo?



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: AMBROSIA HOTLINE SERVER!!!
From: Phil Hilton <phil@hotlinesw.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 12:40:22 -0500

W=BA=BAT!!!

well...  Andrew, (aka - Moki) has FINALLY Setup a Hotline server. If he
finds it's easy to maintain, and people use it, He'll keep it up...

SO GO OVER THERE AND MAKE DAMN SURE HE DOES!!!! THAT'S AN ORDER!  :)

hotline.ambrosiasw.com - OR - 206.27.96.215



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: AMBROSIA HOTLINE SERVER!!!
From: Michael Sheets <msheets@wwisp.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 97 12:10:06 -0600

>well...  Andrew, (aka - Moki) has FINALLY Setup a Hotline server. If he
>finds it's easy to maintain, and people use it, He'll keep it up...
>
>SO GO OVER THERE AND MAKE DAMN SURE HE DOES!!!! THAT'S AN ORDER!  :)
>
>hotline.ambrosiasw.com - OR - 206.27.96.215

Well i've been talking with him and I suggested a file area where people 
could upload files, avara maps, EV plugs, etc. and he didn't like the 
idea saying it would just be something else to maintain unless he had 
someone to do it, anyone like to volunteer?

--->  Michael Sheets         Infinite Designs
--->  911 Meadows Drive      msheets@wwisp.com    
--->  Birmingham, AL 35235

"For one to know how smart they really are one must only look at how 
stupid they were five years ago." - Michael Sheets


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Suggestions
From: Zorkian <zorkian@earthling.net>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 97 13:19:15 -0500

>>
>>the server puts a finder dialog up to insert the volume or connect
>>to it via AppleTalk if it is a remote server. If you are not present at the
>>server, the dialog stays on the screen, and eventually stops the server.
>
>get "okey dokey". to dismiss dialogs. it presses return after a user set
>time. But i think on "please insert the disk..." boxes, pressing return
>tries to tell it the disk is in teh drive, and it just comes back when it
>finds it's not...
>
>sooooooo....  place some tape over the jaz drive. assuming that the jaz has
>the auto inject thing (i THINK it does)...  it will suck the disc back in
>when it bouces off the tape....
>
>
>and FYI: it's teh FINDER that shows that dialog, so hotline can't be
>altered to fix it. And if it was hotline that did it, it would be like
>every other aspect of the program, where the mac would still be allowed to
>do other functions while it was being displayed. (like it still displays
>incoming chat, while your holding down the mouse button doing other
>things...), but it's the finder that brings the entire mac to a hault.
>Maybe sys8 will have enough multi-threading and fix this.  Anyone running a
>server on tempo?


and here's an even easier way. Get the new version of Iomega's Driver and 
tools and set your prefs so that it WON'T eject on restart or shutdown.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of The Hotline Users Digest


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