Sunday, February 9, 1997 11:47:06 PM
          Message
  From:          The Hotline Users Mailing,Hotline@lists.fwparker.org,Internet
  Subject:   The Hotline Users Digest #35 - 02/09/97
  To:            Geoff Le Feuvre
                 The Hotline Users Mailing List <Hotline@lists.fwparker.org>,Internet
The Hotline Users Digest #35 - Sunday, February 9, 1997

  Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL/Ghosts (NOT FINAL)
          by  Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
  Re: Sorry!
          by  <pramsey@mail.tds.net>
  Re: Totally new idea!!! ;-)
          by  <pramsey@mail.tds.net>
  Hotline Mentions/Web Site Suggestion
          by  David Murphy <davidmurphy@earthlink.net>
  Bans: why not just use accounts??
          by  Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
  Re: E_M_E_R_G_E_N_C_Y
          by  Ariel <ariel@voicenet.com>
  Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL/Ghosts (NOT FINAL)
          by  <pramsey@mail.tds.net>
  Re: Totally new idea!!!
          by  Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
  Re: E_M_E_R_G_E_N_C_Y
          by  Ariel <ariel@voicenet.com>
  Hotline Nickname Registry News
          by  David Murphy <davidmurphy@earthlink.net>
  Re: Ok hinks, Read this one.
          by  <pramsey@mail.tds.net>
  Re: Multiple connections
          by  <XANiLOGx@aol.com>
  Re: Multiple connections
          by  Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
  The final word on single/shared accounts
          by  Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
  if you want b20 by mail
          by  Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL/Ghosts (NOT FINAL)
From: Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 13:50:37 +1100

>Well I'm SO sorry Phil, I haven't seen one(1) problem with my latest
>idea, it NEVER uses IP addresses, it NEVER uses domains, it NEVER uses
>wildcards, my idea DOES get rid of ghosts, my idea DOES prevent flooding
>AND my idea DOES take care of the banning problem. MY idea takes care of
>every single problem that has anything to do with banning and ghosts.

1.  domain bans and wildcards cause too much trouble
2.  a ghost can only be removed after a relatively long amount of
    time has elapsed

And just for you togtog:

3.  there is no way to store a code on someones hard disk without
    it being relatively easy to remove

____________________________________________________________________
Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline <http://netspace.net.au/~hinks/>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Sorry!
From: pramsey@mail.tds.net
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 21:39:30 -0400

> Is it just me or does this  message have nothing to do with hotline.
> togtog, didja send this to the wrong address?

Netscapes Address book is crap, sorry about that.

-togtog

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Totally new idea!!! ;-)
From: pramsey@mail.tds.net
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 21:43:23 -0400

> >> And where would that number be stored?  In the prefs file?  Just delete 
> >> your prefs file.
> >
> >Put it in a NEW file, named something like "HLCodes". If the file is
> >deleted from the prefs folder, then Hotline will stop working. The
> >person will have to download a new Hotline again to get back on.
> 
> You said it yourself - simply download a new Hotline again (or rather, 
> keep a backup copy) and your code is reset and you're no longer banned.

I stopped that idea, thats why I tried to come up with a better one.
-togtog

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Hotline Mentions/Web Site Suggestion
From: David Murphy <davidmurphy@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 97 21:47:33 -0500

I've spoted many mentions of Hotline recently:

The Mac Internet Guru 
<http://www.macguru.de/news_archives/news-archive.e.html>:

>13.01.97
>Apple Australia Hotline Server 
>[ Macintosh Internet Connection ] Adam Hinkley's Hotline server is being 
>used by Apple Australia for Apple updates. 

However, they linked to <http://netspace.net.au/~hinks/hotline/>, an 
invalid URL. I'd suggest that /hotline/index.html be added to your site, 
hinks (just provide a link to the real URL), or that you notify MIG at 
<http://www.macguru.de/mail/>

Also found at <http://www.macguru.de/news_archives/news-archive.e.html>:

>09.01.97
>Hotline Hacker Challenge 
>[ Macintouch ] If you are one of those mean Net hackers (actually a 
>"cracker"), then try to break into a Hotline server. You could win 
>something, too. Read about it here. 

>09.01.97
>Hotline 1.1b19 
>[ VersionTracker ] There's a new version of the Internet BBS system, 
>Hotline 1.1b19, out now. Get it from the ftp server. 

>03.01.97
>Happy New Year! 
>Well, I'm back from a week in Belgium visiting some of my wife's 
>relatives.....Some time this weekend I hope to find the time 
>to get you up to date on the many things that have happened this past 
>week: .....Hotline 1.1b19.....


Found at the Mac Internet Connection <http://www.themic.com/>

From Fri, 2/7:

>I received a announcement from Phil Hilton regarding the merger of 
>Macline and MacOver... 
>Macline is proud to announce that it has merged with Mark Tuleweit's 
>MacOver website. A great site offering links to the best resources for 
>customizing your Macintosh. Macline will mirror files presented on the 
>MacOver website. (http://www.macover.net <-- New URL as of 2/7/97) This 
>will provide Macline users with an even greater source of public domain 
>shareware, which can be downloaded using faster than FTP, resumable file 
>transfers via Adam Hinkley's "Hotline" internet client. 

[Strangly enough, there was no link to Macline or Hotline in the above 
mention]

The Stuff Below is from <http://www.themic.com/hotnewsjan97.html>

>Phillip Conrad let me know that Macline, the popular Hotline server, 
>just added the AMUG BBS in a BOX 3 CD set to its collection of 
>shareware. 

-

>Adam Hinkley, the author of Hotline, sent me a follow-up to the posting 
>I made the other day regarding the Apple Austrailia Hotline server. 
>I'm resending this message because I'm not sure it actually got to you, 
>and I didn't explain myself very well the last time. Sorry. 
>
>Anyway, Apple have set up a trial Hotline server (list.apple.com.au) for 
>mirroring some of the files on ftp.info.apple.com. You can't chat or 
>leave messages - the server is devoted to file downloads. 
>
>What is Hotline? It's a file transfer and conferencing system for the 
>internet. It has a number of advantages over FTP such as resuming a 
>download after an interruption. Hotline can be downloaded for free from 
><http://netspace.net.au/~hinks/>. 
>
>As the server gets more popular, they will add more files, and 
>presumably set up a US server. In the mean time, people need to know 
>that this service is available. I would greatly appreciate it if you 
>could mention it. 

-

>Adam Hinkley let me know that Apple Austrailia is running a Hotline 
>server at list.apple.com.au. You can download the latest version of 
>Hotline at Adam's Web site. 

-

From <http://www.themic.com/hotnewsnov96.html>:

>Hotline 1.1b14 Available 
>Adam Hinkley asked me to announce that beta 1.1b14 of Hotline is 
>available free for downloading. 
>
>What is Hotline? 
>
>Hotline is a new system for internet communications. It does file 
>transfer (not ftp), chat (not irc) and news (not nntp). It can quickly 
>transfer files with full support for resource forks and other mac stuff 
>WITHOUT the hassles of binhex/macbinary. 
>
>What's new in 1.1b14? 
>
>
>*	File upload! 
>*	File transfers now have an ETR display (estimated time remaining). 
>*	Refresh button on the Files window re-transfers the list of files from 
>the server. 
>*	Certain files are now shown with a custom icon (eg, StuffIt archives, 
>text files etc). 
>*	Chat input area enlarged to three lines. 
>*	Some new Finder and toolbar icons. 
>*	Files now download to a folder called "Downloads" (created if necessary) 
>in the same folder as the app. Option-click the download button to have 
>Hotline ask you where you want to save the file. 
>
>
>| Go to Hotline Home Page | 

Whew! Give those sites a link and mention in the next HL About Box!

--David M.
____________                  ________________________________________
David Murphy                 <"David Murphy" davidmurphy@earthlink.net>
Walt Whitman High School     <"David Murphy" dmurphy@whitman.gmu.edu>
Bethesda, Maryland, USA      <http://home.earthlink.net/~davidmurphy/>
New! Hotline Nick. Reg:      <http://home.earthlink.net/~davidmurphy/hl/>
New! Homeschooling info:     <http://home.earthlink.net/~davidmurphy/hs/>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Bans: why not just use accounts??
From: Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 14:04:19 +1100

>Ok...about the banning...so you ban a WHOLE domain because of one 
>person...someone else tries to get onto the server ...they get an error 
>message that says something like: "Sorry, your domain has been banned 
>from accessing this server, if you have any question you can E-Mail 
><youre-mailaddress>."
>then they can e-mail you and you could make them a different 
>account..which bupasses the ban. So what I am saying is make it so that 
>it checks to see if the person has a REAL account on the server(not 
>guest) and if they do...then check if there domain is banned.

Why not just ban EVERYONE from your server, and only allow people with 
accounts on?  I'm serious!

People just cannot behave, so I have disabled news posts and uploads for 
guests on my server. If you want to contribute, you can mail me for an 
account.  If you break the rules, I'll delete your account.

Works well :)

I have guest setup like this:

Can Download Files
Can Read News
Can Read Chat
Can Send Chat

And normal user accounts like this:

Can Download Files
Can Uploads Files
Can Read News
Can Post News
Can Read Chat
Can Send Chat

This setup could use a single-address 30 minute ban feature, but apart 
from that, it works really well for me.


____________________________________________________________________
Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline <http://netspace.net.au/~hinks/>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: E_M_E_R_G_E_N_C_Y
From: Ariel <ariel@voicenet.com>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 22:05:24 +0000

I'm afraid its no hoax.. check out: http://www.fcc.gov/isp.html

At 8:43 PM -0500 2/9/97, David Murphy wrote:
>>DEAR FRIENDS,
>>THE FOLLOWING NOTICE I RECEIVED FROM AN EXTREMELY REPUTABLE FRIEND IN MY
>>INTERNET GROUP.  HE IS A CONSULTANT TO MICROSOFT.  THIS EFFECTS US ALL!!!
>>THANKS FOR LISTENING-YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO
>
>>>>>Forward this to everyone you know who uses the net -
>>>>>
>>>>>FYI
>
>All of the above statements sound like a typical hoax. For example, some
>varieties of the Good Times/Penpal hoax state that you should forward the
>"warning" to 'everyone you know'. The scare circulated my father's office
>at one point, and everyone forwarded it, saying "FYI", forward this,
>etc.--Just like the above warning says. I'll admit that I've already
>emailed the FCC about this "Emergency", but it just occured to me that
>this might be a hoax...
>
>--David
>
>PS: Don't believe that the Good Times Virus is a hoax? You're not alone.
>For years, the warning has been circulating the net. It is a HOAX! Visit
>Symantec's Hoax list in the Anti-Virus Center
><http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/data/penpal.html> if you don't believe
>me.
>
>PPS: Can anyone visit the FCC site (http://www.fcc.gov), and see if there
>is any indication if it's a hoax.......(I can't access the site for some
>reason). Please report back to the list. Thanks!
>
>--David M.
>____________                  ________________________________________
>David Murphy                 <"David Murphy" davidmurphy@earthlink.net>
>Walt Whitman High School     <"David Murphy" dmurphy@whitman.gmu.edu>
>Bethesda, Maryland, USA      <http://home.earthlink.net/~davidmurphy/>
>New! Hotline Nick. Reg:      <http://home.earthlink.net/~davidmurphy/hl/>
>New! Homeschooling info:     <http://home.earthlink.net/~davidmurphy/hs/>




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL/Ghosts (NOT FINAL)
From: pramsey@mail.tds.net
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 21:59:43 -0400

>Well I'm SO sorry Phil, I haven't seen one(1) problem with my latest
>idea, it NEVER uses IP addresses, it NEVER uses domains, it NEVER uses
>wildcards, my idea DOES get rid of ghosts, my idea DOES prevent flooding
>AND my idea DOES take care of the banning problem. MY idea takes care of
>every single problem that has anything to do with banning and ghosts.

> 1.  domain bans and wildcards cause too much trouble
Hey wait a minute here, are you replying to right message? Read the
second line of the above text.

> 2.  a ghost can only be removed after a relatively long amount of
>     time has elapsed
The way it takes care of ghosts is with the userIDcodes, no one would
have the same code so if a person loged onto a server twice in would
kick the first one without warning or pinging.

 
> And just for you togtog:
> 
> 3.  there is no way to store a code on someones hard disk without
>     it being relatively easy to remove
Thats why I said store the number is a prefs file AND in EVERY Hotline
launched on that computer. So the person would have to delete ALL
Hotlines and the file to remove the code.

Ok, can end this now?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Totally new idea!!!
From: Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 14:18:26 +1100

>No one would delete it IF it was in a place they rarely go, like
>HD:System Folder:Preferences:Hotline:
>I know newbies and non-pros have a way of deleting things they shouldn't
>but this should be all clear.

Sure, the newbies won't delete it.  But newbies don't cause problems and 
don't need to be banned.

The people that need to be banned are the ones who will quickly discover 
that deleting the preferences file gets around the ban.

____________________________________________________________________
Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline <http://netspace.net.au/~hinks/>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: E_M_E_R_G_E_N_C_Y
From: Ariel <ariel@voicenet.com>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 22:06:12 -0500 (EST)

I have no idea why its down..but I went to it a few days ago - before it
was down.

At 8:43 PM -0500 2/9/97, David Murphy wrote:
>>DEAR FRIENDS,
>>THE FOLLOWING NOTICE I RECEIVED FROM AN EXTREMELY REPUTABLE FRIEND IN MY
>>INTERNET GROUP.  HE IS A CONSULTANT TO MICROSOFT.  THIS EFFECTS US ALL!!!
>>THANKS FOR LISTENING-YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO
>
>>>>>Forward this to everyone you know who uses the net -
>>>>>
>>>>>FYI
>
>All of the above statements sound like a typical hoax. For example, some
>varieties of the Good Times/Penpal hoax state that you should forward the
>"warning" to 'everyone you know'. The scare circulated my father's office
>at one point, and everyone forwarded it, saying "FYI", forward this,
>etc.--Just like the above warning says. I'll admit that I've already
>emailed the FCC about this "Emergency", but it just occured to me that
>this might be a hoax...
>
>--David
>
>PS: Don't believe that the Good Times Virus is a hoax? You're not alone.
>For years, the warning has been circulating the net. It is a HOAX! Visit
>Symantec's Hoax list in the Anti-Virus Center
><http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/data/penpal.html> if you don't believe
>me.
>
>PPS: Can anyone visit the FCC site (http://www.fcc.gov), and see if there
>is any indication if it's a hoax.......(I can't access the site for some
>reason). Please report back to the list. Thanks!
>
>--David M.
>____________                  ________________________________________
>David Murphy                 <"David Murphy" davidmurphy@earthlink.net>
>Walt Whitman High School     <"David Murphy" dmurphy@whitman.gmu.edu>
>Bethesda, Maryland, USA      <http://home.earthlink.net/~davidmurphy/>
>New! Hotline Nick. Reg:      <http://home.earthlink.net/~davidmurphy/hl/>
>New! Homeschooling info:     <http://home.earthlink.net/~davidmurphy/hs/>




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Hotline Nickname Registry News
From: David Murphy <davidmurphy@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 97 22:12:06 -0500

I would like to let everyone know that I appreciate the amazing 
popularity of the Hotline Nickname Registry. Unfortunatly, I have been 
amazingly busy this week, and I have not had the chance to update the 
page for a while. (I currently have 120 entires to add).

I *will* add your entry as soon as I can. Once again, I'm very sorry for 
the delay.

--David M.
____________                  ________________________________________
David Murphy                 <"David Murphy" davidmurphy@earthlink.net>
Walt Whitman High School     <"David Murphy" dmurphy@whitman.gmu.edu>
Bethesda, Maryland, USA      <http://home.earthlink.net/~davidmurphy/>
New! Hotline Nick. Reg:      <http://home.earthlink.net/~davidmurphy/hl/>
New! Homeschooling info:     <http://home.earthlink.net/~davidmurphy/hs/>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Ok hinks, Read this one.
From: pramsey@mail.tds.net
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 22:18:31 -0400

> So what's to stop someone from just obtaining a new code?  The database 
> checks if the email address is already registered?   There are a number 
> "mail redirection" services available that would thwart this.
But it would make it a bit harder to do. Maybe if the form recorded the
persons IP then it could check that to tell if it was the same person,
note I say maybe.

> Also, Hotline is supposed to be easy to setup and use.  Having to obtain 
> a code complicates things.
Yep
 
> Furthermore, if you just want to use Hotline on an intranet, it'd be a 
> real pain having to get codes.
Ah yep.

-togtog

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Multiple connections
From: XANiLOGx@aol.com
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 22:24:57 -0500 (EST)

Maybe there could be a "Server" menu added that would list all the servers
you are connected to, with the one in front checked. to switch you would just
select one from that menu, and that servers windows would then pop up and the
others go away. this is an easy concept, i dont know how easy it would be to
implement though.

-Jason

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Multiple connections
From: Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 14:57:36 +1100

>I'd like to see in the newer hotline client (b20) the possibility to make
>many connections to different sites without launching multiple copies of
>Hotline Client (like it is now). It's very tedious !
>Is this option included in b20 Hotline ?

This will not be included in b20 as I cannot think of a way that it could 
work without being very confusing for the user.

Multiple connections in the one app could only work if there was no 
explict connect/disconnect  - if connecting and disconnecting was handled 
transparently.

Huh?  Look at Anarchie for an excellent example.   ie, instead of 
connecting to a server, you're asking for a specific resource instead 
(eg, list folder x).

This works well for files, but not as well for chat and news.  Also, how 
would the toolbar function?  If you click New User, which server does the 
user get created on?


____________________________________________________________________
Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline <http://netspace.net.au/~hinks/>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: The final word on single/shared accounts
From: Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 15:37:04 +1100


Okay, this is how single user and shared accounts could work.  However, I 
won't be implementing this for b20 - more important things to do first.

The "Edit User" window gets a new text box and checkbox:

           Maximum Clients:       100
           [x] Disconnect duplicate clients

If the maximum number of clients for an account are already logged in, 
then the server will refuse further logins for that account with a polite 
message:  "The maximum number of users for this account has been reached."

For example, you may want it so that only 5 guest users can be logged in 
at a time - to make sure bandwidth isn't being sucked from your 
registered users.   For a single user account, you could set this to 1.

If "Disconnect duplicate clients" is on, then when a client connects, if 
another client from the same computer is online, that client gets 
disconnected and the new client is allowed to connect.  This solves the 
problem of dead connections and a single user account.

Two clients are considered to be from the same computer if (a) they have 
the same IP address, or (b) they have the same client ID.  The client ID 
is randomly generated once when the preferences file is created.

However, it IS possible that two clients will get the same ID.  If a 
4-byte ID is used, the probability is 1 in 4.2 billion.  If an 8-byte ID 
is used, the probability is 1 in 18.4 thousand trillion.  In addition, a 
problem will only occur if two clients have the same ID and are connected 
with the same account and "Disconnect duplicate clients" is turned on.

Due to the checking of the duplicate IP addresses, there is little or no 
advantage in deleting your preferences to obtain a new ID.



____________________________________________________________________
Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline <http://netspace.net.au/~hinks/>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: if you want b20 by mail
From: Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 15:54:49 +1100


NO B20 IS NOT OUT YET.  It will be released sometime this week.

However, if you want b20 and future versions automatically mailed to you 
as soon as they're released, let me know.   Tell me what versions you 
want or I'll ignore your message.  Just tick the boxes you want:

[ ] Hotline Client 68K
[ ] Hotline Client PPC
[ ] Hotline Server 68K
[ ] Hotline Server PPC
[ ] Hotline Tracker 68K
[ ] Hotline Tracker PPC

Note that you DO NOT need the tracker to get a listing of active servers 
- you use the client for that.  You only need the tracker if you actually 
want to run a tracker yourself (you must have a static IP and a permanent 
connection).  Just to make sure you're paying attention, I will ignore 
your request for the tracker unless you state that you understand that 
you do not need the tracker to get a listing of active servers.

Hehe this is how get the most out of your ISP - send one mail message 
with an attached file and 100 "CC" addresses :)

____________________________________________________________________
Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline <http://netspace.net.au/~hinks/>


----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of The Hotline Users Digest


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