Sunday, February 9, 1997 9:34:46 PM Message From: The Hotline Users Mailing,Hotline@lists.fwparker.org,Internet Subject: The Hotline Users Digest #34 - 02/09/97 To: Geoff Le Feuvre The Hotline Users Mailing List ,Internet The Hotline Users Digest #34 - Sunday, February 9, 1997 (-: Cheer up, everyone! :-) by David Murphy =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=bfQuestion=3f?= by jonny Re: Multiple connections by =?iso-8859-1?Q?=A5ukka=21?= Re: Totally new idea!!! ;-) by Adam Hinkley Re: E_M_E_R_G_E_N_C_Y by =?iso-8859-1?Q?=A5ukka=21?= Re: Here's a fresh new idea by Adam Hinkley Re: E_M_E_R_G_E_N_C_Y by Noah Daniels Re: interaction? by Adam Hinkley Re: The Secret Order of the Festive Squirrelz!!!! by =?iso-8859-1?Q?=A5ukka=21?= Re: E_M_E_R_G_E_N_C_Y by David Murphy Re: Suggestions by Adam Hinkley Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL by Adam Hinkley Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL by Adam Hinkley Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL by Noah Daniels Re: 1 user per IP/account by Adam Hinkley Re: Ok hinks, Read this one. by Adam Hinkley Re: Totally new idea!!! by Adam Hinkley Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL/Ghosts (FINAL) by Adam Hinkley ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: (-: Cheer up, everyone! :-) From: David Murphy Date: Sun, 9 Feb 97 19:27:09 -0500 This list has been pretty tense in the past few days. I'd suggest that everyone goes for a walk, counts to 100, and reads this: [Domenico Bettinelli, Jr. posted this message to the Emailer-Talk list:] ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Date: 01/23 3:29 PM Received: 01/23 3:44 PM From: Rich Gay, rich_gay@fsti.com To: Rich's Humor List, rich_humor_list@bart.fsti.com [note from Rich - this one is so very accurate] IF ARCHITECTS HAD TO WORK LIKE PROGRAMMERS Please design and build me a house. I am not sure of what I need, so you should use your discretion. My house should have between two and forty-five bedrooms. Just make sure the plans are such that the bedrooms can be easily added or deleted. When you bring the blueprints to me, I will make the final decision of what I want. Also bring me the cost breakdown for each configuration so that I can arbitrarily pick one. Keep in mind that the house I ultimately choose must cost less than the one I am currently living in. Make sure, however, that you correct all the deficiencies that exist in my current house (the floor of my kitchen vibrates when I walk across it and the walls don't have nearly enough insulation in them.) As you design, also keep in mind that I want to keep yearly maintenance cost as low as possible. This should mean the incorporation of extra-cost features like aluminum, vinyl, or composite siding. (If you choose not to specify aluminum, be prepared to explain you decision in detail.) Please take care that the modern design practices and the latest materials are used in the construction of the house, as I want it to be a showplace for the most up-to-date ideas and methods. Be alerted however, that the kitchen should be designed to accommodate, among other things, my 1952 Gibson refrigerator. To insure that you are building the correct house for my entire family, make certain that you contact each of my children and also my in-laws. My mother-in-law will have very strong feelings about how the house should be designed, since she visit us at least once a year. Make sure that you weigh all these options carefully and come to the right decision. I, however, retain the right to overrule any choices that you make. Please don't bother me with small details right now. Your job is to develop the overall plans for the house, get the big picture. At this time, for example, it is not appropriate to be choosing the color of the carpet. Keep in mind, however that my wife like blue. Also do not worry at this time about acquiring the resources to build the house itself. Your first priority is to develop detailed plans and specifications. Once I approve these plans, however, I would expect the house to be under construction within 48 hours. While you are designing this house specifically for me, keep in mind that sooner or later I will have to sell it to someone else. It therefore should appeal to a wide variety of potential buyers. Please make sure before you finalize the plans that there is a consensus of the population in my area that they like the features this house has. I advise you to run up and look at my neighbor's house he constructed last year. We like it a great deal. It has many features that we would also like in our new home, particularly the 75-foot swimming pool. With careful engineering. I believe that you can design this into our new house without impacting the final cost. Please prepare a complete set of blueprints. It is not necessary at this time to do the real design, since they will be used for construction bids. Be advised, however, that you will be held accountable for any increase of construction costs as a result of later design changes. You must be thrilled to be working on as interesting a project as this! To be able to use the latest techniques and materials and to be given such freedom in your designs is something that can't happen very often. Contact me as soon as possible with your complete ideas and plans. PS. My wife has just told me that she disagrees with many of the instructions I've given you in this letter, As architect, it is your responsibility to resolve these differences. I have tried in the past and have been unable to accomplish this. If you can't handle the responsibility, I will have to find another architect. PPS. Perhaps what I need is not a house at all, but a travel trailer. Please advise me as soon as possible if this the case. ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- :-) --David M. ____________ ________________________________________ David Murphy <"David Murphy" davidmurphy@earthlink.net> Walt Whitman High School <"David Murphy" dmurphy@whitman.gmu.edu> Bethesda, Maryland, USA New! Hotline Nick. Reg: New! Homeschooling info: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=bfQuestion=3f?= From: jonny Date: Sun, 9 Feb 97 19:55:06 -0000 Thjis has nothing to do with H/L but about how many people are on this mailing list? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Multiple connections From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?=A5ukka=21?=" Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 19:54:29 -0400 Hey Fabio, I agree with you.. The multiple clients just confuses me even if I change soundsets, toolbars and chat colour. Adam, where does this rank on your things to do list? jr --------------------------------------------------------------- s143303@studenti.ing.unipi.it wrote: > > I'd like to see in the newer hotline client (b20) the possibility to make > many connections to different sites without launching multiple copies of > Hotline Client (like it is now). It's very tedious ! > Is this option included in b20 Hotline ? > Let me know, please. > > Fabrizio ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Totally new idea!!! ;-) From: Adam Hinkley Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 12:14:56 +1100 >> And where would that number be stored? In the prefs file? Just delete >> your prefs file. > >Put it in a NEW file, named something like "HLCodes". If the file is >deleted from the prefs folder, then Hotline will stop working. The >person will have to download a new Hotline again to get back on. You said it yourself - simply download a new Hotline again (or rather, keep a backup copy) and your code is reset and you're no longer banned. ____________________________________________________________________ Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: E_M_E_R_G_E_N_C_Y From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?=A5ukka=21?=" Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 20:09:29 -0400 This issue of per minute charges does not affect hotline directly, but does affect the users. In Canada there will be no user fees for at least 3 years. After that who knows. Knowing the Canadian system of government, they will most likely follow suit if the US implement the ridiculous and greedy system. The media wishes to destroy the net becuse it threatens their existence. (radio, Television, Telcos, publishers) they haven't figured out how to make money from it so they are trying to destroy it with negative press about hackers , porn etc. etc. The only people who will benefit are the telcos and cable companies. This only means that cable modems better work soon. A simple solution is the infamous ADSL but see if they ever implement a system where they don't make money. ADSL will do 6.4 megs downstream and 4.2 upstream within 3.6 km over a regular pots line. Satelite may be anoher solution but the claws and teeth have been sunk into that sector aswell with many restrictions. User fees are already implemented in many countries around the world. ie to call your next door neighbour in the Netherlands it costs ya 30=A2 per= minute. Has anyone ever wondered why there are so few europeans online? Now you know. Belgium, Germany, Denmark, and many others. I think Sweden and finland do not but I am not sure. These user fees are based on all telephone calls regardless. I do not believe they can initiate a per minute charge without including all telephone services. There is no way to regulate it without blanket user fees. By creating user fees the telco just get richer and that is life =3D)> Just last week in California there were incidents of no dial tones when people picked up their phones. This could be hog wash propaganda (which you yankees are famous for) or it could also be case exAmples that shows the interference they are speaking of. Thank god it wasn't someone trying to make a 911 call. That would be the end of the net as we know it. So all you who keep your connections on just for the hell of it ie to be on top =3D)> or whatever. Lighten your load and there may be some relief.= here's hoping... as if we all didn't see it coming..... jr ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Here's a fresh new idea From: Adam Hinkley Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 12:27:46 +1100 >>It'd be stored in the comments in an URL style format. > >Couldn't storing all that log-on info in the comments be comsidered >something of a security risk? Maybe put it in V=E4porTOK....? It would be >Hotline's answer to PGP...VGV! :) Just store it without the password. ____________________________________________________________________ Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: E_M_E_R_G_E_N_C_Y From: Noah Daniels Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 20:17:26 -0500 Ok, I guess I'll post the letter I wrote to isp@fcc.gov: I'm writing to you to express my concern that local telephone companies may be trying to get a law passed that would impose per-minute charges on online time. The Internet is the natural evolution of telecommunications. It is faster, more flexible, and more powerful than the telephone network. Unfortunately for the phone companies, they have missed the boat when it came to judging how important the internet would be, and are not profiting as much as they would like. They are asking the FCC to help them out. This is much like reports that the US Postal Service wanted the government to impose email taxes, because technology has passed the USPS by and threatened its livelyhood. The Free Market is not always a perfect institution; there are many cases where the poor and the uneducated end up treated unfairly, and arguments can be made that they deserve special treatment in some cases. However, the telephone companies are not poor. They are not uneducated. They have monopolized the information age thus far, and have simply let the next era in the information age slip through their grasp. They do not deserve compensation, special laws, or advantages at the expense of the people. Our government exists to serve the people, not to help large corporations profit. It should not unnecessarily hinder corporate profits, but it has no business holding back technology and progress so that certain companies can profit. The government is for the people, not the phone companies. Please keep it that way. Thank you, -- Noah M. Daniels ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/~ndaniel1/ "He was a brave man who first ate an oyster" - Jonathan Swift "'Internet' is the 'snausage' word of the 90's." - Ben Vigoda '96 "Wonder is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins in wonder" - Socrates ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: interaction? From: Adam Hinkley Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 12:32:43 +1100 >1. Although there are some great server sites out there particular to >Hotline do I have the abiltity to connect to other sites such as the >frequented IRCle (hush my mouth) IRC servers? Or even Kali sites? No, Hotline does not support IRC. Hotline Client can only connect to Hotline Server. >2. Where might I find additional servers utilizing the Hotline software? Hotline b20, which will be released this week, has a "Tracker" feature that lets you easily find servers. ____________________________________________________________________ Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: The Secret Order of the Festive Squirrelz!!!! From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?=A5ukka=21?=" Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 19:51:36 -0400 Hi dear I am on Macline. jr ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: E_M_E_R_G_E_N_C_Y From: David Murphy Date: Sun, 9 Feb 97 20:43:47 -0500 >DEAR FRIENDS, >THE FOLLOWING NOTICE I RECEIVED FROM AN EXTREMELY REPUTABLE FRIEND IN MY >INTERNET GROUP. HE IS A CONSULTANT TO MICROSOFT. THIS EFFECTS US ALL!!! >THANKS FOR LISTENING-YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO >>>>Forward this to everyone you know who uses the net - >>>> >>>>FYI All of the above statements sound like a typical hoax. For example, some varieties of the Good Times/Penpal hoax state that you should forward the "warning" to 'everyone you know'. The scare circulated my father's office at one point, and everyone forwarded it, saying "FYI", forward this, etc.--Just like the above warning says. I'll admit that I've already emailed the FCC about this "Emergency", but it just occured to me that this might be a hoax... --David PS: Don't believe that the Good Times Virus is a hoax? You're not alone. For years, the warning has been circulating the net. It is a HOAX! Visit Symantec's Hoax list in the Anti-Virus Center if you don't believe me. PPS: Can anyone visit the FCC site (http://www.fcc.gov), and see if there is any indication if it's a hoax.......(I can't access the site for some reason). Please report back to the list. Thanks! --David M. ____________ ________________________________________ David Murphy <"David Murphy" davidmurphy@earthlink.net> Walt Whitman High School <"David Murphy" dmurphy@whitman.gmu.edu> Bethesda, Maryland, USA New! Hotline Nick. Reg: New! Homeschooling info: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Suggestions From: Adam Hinkley Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 13:04:01 +1100 >How about having a userlist in the server too so you can send private >messages to people from the server and they can respond from the client >to you in the server but only if you(the admin) wanted a responce. Also >how about being able to dissconnect people with a userlist in the server. I would keep the server slim - it's got to be high performance. It's better if everything is done from the client because then it can be done remotely, and there is no overlap between the client and server. ____________________________________________________________________ Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL From: Adam Hinkley Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 13:09:12 +1100 >But what about keeping the 10 minute timeout as it stands, but if a duplicate >user tries to login, send a check with a 30-second timeout or something? That >prevents simultaneous logins, but only under rare conditions would it >cause any >problems. A 30-second timeout is waaaaay to low. For example, say you startup netscape and eudora. The client could easily miss sending the response and be disconnected. ____________________________________________________________________ Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL From: Adam Hinkley Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 13:13:28 +1100 >What if you log in with the same ip as someone else the original one is >kicked and the second is allowed? If someone is trying to log in twice >they would still be on once and if they crashed it takes care if the >ghost problem. That would only work for static IPs. Most people are have dynamic IPs, which means the IP address changes everytime they connect to their ISP. ____________________________________________________________________ Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL From: Noah Daniels Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 20:58:36 -0500 >>But what about keeping the 10 minute timeout as it stands, but if a duplicate >>user tries to login, send a check with a 30-second timeout or something? That >>prevents simultaneous logins, but only under rare conditions would it >>cause any >>problems. > >A 30-second timeout is waaaaay to low. For example, say you startup >netscape and eudora. The client could easily miss sending the response >and be disconnected. Well, not 30 seconds... but remember, this is ONLY in the instance that a 2nd user with the same name tries to log in at the same time! So the only risk is if someone else is sharing an account (bad!) and logs in at the same time the first user is, say, opening Netscape. Sounds like a small enough risk to be worthwhile. -- Noah M. Daniels ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/~ndaniel1/ "He was a brave man who first ate an oyster" - Jonathan Swift "'Internet' is the 'snausage' word of the 90's." - Ben Vigoda '96 "Wonder is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins in wonder" - Socrates ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 1 user per IP/account From: Adam Hinkley Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 13:20:46 +1100 >-(Option 1) Server checks ghosts IP again, and sees there is none anymore >since the connection is dead. User is allowed to connect as usual. Would that >work? No that would not work. You can't just say "oh, the connection's dead". The connection is dead when it has timed out waiting for a response, and that can take 10 minutes. >-(Option 2) Server sends a ping to the ghost's client, if the user is in fact >still online, the client will send the ping back, and the other user will be >disallowed to connect. If the ghost is actually a ghost, the client will have >been crashed, so it won't return the ping. Server allows the other user to >connect as usual. Again, whichever way you do it, the server has to wait for a response. And that takes time. Mean while, the user is left stranded - unable to login - while the ghost times out. Even waiting 1 minute for a ghost to disappear is unacceptable in my opinion. ____________________________________________________________________ Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Ok hinks, Read this one. From: Adam Hinkley Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 13:37:48 +1100 >Make it so people who want to use HL have to fill out a form with there >name and email address then you or a script takes the persons name, >email address and encodes it, making a long number out of it, like >35644235532563. So what's to stop someone from just obtaining a new code? The database checks if the email address is already registered? There are a number "mail redirection" services available that would thwart this. Also, Hotline is supposed to be easy to setup and use. Having to obtain a code complicates things. Furthermore, if you just want to use Hotline on an intranet, it'd be a real pain having to get codes. ____________________________________________________________________ Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Totally new idea!!! From: Adam Hinkley Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 13:45:34 +1100 >Wouldn't the most obvious place be to store it in either the server's >bookmark, or in the application's data fork? Makes no difference. Just delete the bookmark and create a new one. Or just keep a backup "clean" copy of the application. ____________________________________________________________________ Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL/Ghosts (FINAL) From: Adam Hinkley Date: Mon, 10 Feb 97 13:48:13 +1100 >2. Hinks hinks states quite clearly SEVERAL TIMES, the he is NOT going to >implement domain bans and/or wildcards. Yep, they cause too much trouble. >AND that a ghost can NOT be removed >by pinging the IP IN ANY WAY! Yes, a ghost can only be removed after a reasonably long amount of time has elapsed. >3. We just sit here fighting about it! Yeah, we're going round in circles here :) ____________________________________________________________________ Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of The Hotline Users Digest --- Internet Message Header Follows --- Received: from macline.fwparker.org by bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca (SMI-8.6/SMI-4.0) id VAA13255; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 21:57:43 -0500 Message-Id: <199702100257.VAA13255.13255@bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca> From: The Hotline Users Mailing List To: The Hotline Users Mailing List Subject: The Hotline Users Digest #34 - 02/09/97 Date: Sun, 9 Feb 97 20:34:46 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Precedence: Bulk X-ListServer: LetterRip 1.0.1 by Fog City Software, Inc.