Saturday, February 8, 1997 8:47:04 PM Message From: The Hotline Users Mailing,Hotline@lists.fwparker.org,Internet Subject: The Hotline Users Digest #31 - 02/08/97 To: Geoff Le Feuvre The Hotline Users Mailing List ,Internet The Hotline Users Digest #31 - Saturday, February 8, 1997 Ghost removal by Colin Pye Ok hinks, Read this one. by Re: Suggestions by Phil Hilton Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL/Ghosts (FINAL) by Phil Hilton -please unsubscribe by Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL/Ghosts (NOT FINAL) by Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL/Ghosts (NOT FINAL) wanna bet? by Phil Hilton A few more suggestions by jonny The Whole IP blocking thing. by Ford, Eric A (FORDEA5) Re: A few more suggestions by Phil Hilton Re: A few more suggestions by (Matt Neuhaus) Re: "Hotline" by David Murphy ML/HL appears in Evangelist...Again! by David Murphy Easy, free Hotline Promotion Idea by David Murphy NEW URL: Hotline Nickname Registry by David Murphy -please unsubscribe by (K. Mishima) Re: Suggestions by Huck Re: "Hotline" by Phil Hilton ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Ghost removal From: Colin Pye Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 05:02:42 -0400 Here's a thought on ghosting, based on what I have read here. Please keep in mind that at this point, I am in the dark about what is happening between the client and server, and any details are likely far from accurate, but look for the concepts... During the connect attempt, have the client generate a 2-byte "Connection Key", good for that session. When the client connects to the server, the client says "and this is my key: ##". If the server sees another user with that name, the server pings the first connection with "What is your key?" If the answer is what the client signed on with, then the old connection has died, and can be cleaned up. On the other side of things, you could have Hotline serialize itself (say, based on the initial IP and number of ON hours from the system PRAM) on creating a preferences file, and exchange that information instead. If the new connection has the same serial number as the old "ghost" connection, just terminate the old connection. With the serial number stored in a common prefs file, all clients (or copies of clients) running from one machine would be using it, and if someone tried multiple connections, then the new connection should replace the old one. In the case of a mismatch, a "This User is already online" message could be displayed. Just a few thoughts, Colin cp@atcon.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Ok hinks, Read this one. From: pramsey@mail.tds.net Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 05:24:58 -0500 Ok, You have heard my ideas and other HL users ideas. Here is one more that I think will solve most or all of the ban, wildcard ban, ghost and flood problems. Make it so people who want to use HL have to fill out a form with there name and email address then you or a script takes the persons name, email address and encodes it, making a long number out of it, like 35644235532563. Then you or the script emails the person the code within 5 minutes(while they are waiting they can be downloading HL). Ok so now the person has there code, now they lauch HL and it asks for there name and code, they enter the info and hit the OK button. HL now stores that number in a pref file, in the System Folder, and in ANY HL launched, making it VERY hard to delete the code. Every time HL is launched the number will be loaded into memory. If an admin wants to ban the person for a time then all they have to do is click on the persons name, click the ban button and the code is recored on a list on the server. When the person trys to reconnect to the server, the server checks the code and if it matches they get a friendy message saying "Sorry but you have been banned from this server for _ minutes, please try again then" Ghosts: If the person logs onto a server there code is kept in a temp file on the server, if they crash, then logon again, then server sees that the 2 people have the same code and disconnects the first one. This is both fair and very very useful to the admins. It would be hard to get past this ban because it doesn't have to do with the IP. Pros: * Admins can ban a person, they can NOT get back in until the timeout expires. Doing this will not cause anyone else to be banned like wildcards. * Takes care of the ghost peoblem. * Enables only 1 connection to a server by a person. Cons: =95 Person has to fill out a simple form and wait for like 5 minutes for there code. * If the person deletes the code(That is very hard to do: They have to delete the email message that has the code, all copies of HL AND the prefs file) they have to write a email to hinks explaining why the code has stopped working, i.e. Deleting everything and ask for a new code. I hope all this is clear hinks. Any problems with this? EVERYONE Vote for this. -togtog ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Suggestions From: Phil Hilton Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 11:05:48 -0500 >I am pretty certain that what he was referring to was this: > >A guest logs on and messages you, asking if the server has any cool games. >You reply, "Of course we do." He replies, can you point me to where they >are? This is where the idea fits in: You browse to the games folder >inside the message window and select that folder. Then when you send the >message, the aother guy just double clicks on the Games folder inside the >message box that he receives from you and the Games window opens for him. >Woohoo! sure, and the next time he's lookin for a game, he sits around waitin for you thinkin, "Damn I wish i knew whre that games folder was, where is that guy?". If you keep tying a 3 year olds shoes, they're never gonna learn. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL/Ghosts (FINAL) From: Phil Hilton Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 11:22:32 -0500 ok, lets sum this up..... 1. We sit here fighting back and forth about what the "best" way ban a perosn is. 2. Hinks hinks states quite clearly SEVERAL TIMES, the he is NOT going to implement domain bans and/or wildcards. AND that a ghost can NOT be removed by pinging the IP IN ANY WAY! 3. We just sit here fighting about it! Are we missing something??? NEXT TOPIC! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: -please unsubscribe From: Rigitoni0@aol.com Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 12:25:51 -0500 (EST) -please unsubscribe me from the Hotline Users Mailing List Thanks -Michael Morlitz ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL/Ghosts (NOT FINAL) From: pramsey@mail.tds.net Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 12:36:39 -0500 > ok, lets sum this up..... > > 1. We sit here fighting back and forth about what the "best" way ban a > perosn is. > > 2. Hinks hinks states quite clearly SEVERAL TIMES, the he is NOT going to > implement domain bans and/or wildcards. AND that a ghost can NOT be removed > by pinging the IP IN ANY WAY! > > 3. We just sit here fighting about it! > Well I'm SO sorry Phil, I haven't seen one(1) problem with my latest idea, it NEVER uses IP addresses, it NEVER uses domains, it NEVER uses wildcards, my idea DOES get rid of ghosts, my idea DOES prevent flooding AND my idea DOES take care of the banning problem. MY idea takes care of every single problem that has anything to do with banning and ghosts. If you missed my idea I would be more then happy to post it again. > Are we missing something??? > > NEXT TOPIC! Well excuse ME, I didn't know that a PROBLEM FIX should be given up on, giving up is the MIRCOSHIT way. How about we just cancel this whole mailing list, huh? The only thing I see people fighting about is wildcards and domain bans, MY and OTHER peoples ideas have already solved this problem. -togtog ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL/Ghosts (NOT FINAL) wanna bet? From: Phil Hilton Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 13:24:58 -0500 >Well I'm SO sorry Phil, I haven't seen one(1) problem with my latest >idea, it NEVER uses IP addresses, it NEVER uses domains, it NEVER uses >wildcards, my idea DOES get rid of ghosts, my idea DOES prevent flooding >AND my idea DOES take care of the banning problem. MY idea takes care of >every single problem that has anything to do with banning and ghosts. And you did a great job of mentioning it's cons as well. A: Nobody likes registering things. Newbies to the net are actually afraid to fill out such forms. Newbies are Hotlines biggest market. This will seriously damage the rate at which Hotline grows. B: There is nothing stopping the person from registering for another code. "oh, I'm banned, I'll just delete my prefs, fillout the form, and in 5 minutes, I'll have another code that will let me back into the server" Your plan is ONLY fool proof. The people that cause problems are not fools. They just act it. >How about we just cancel this whole mailing list, huh? That's 2 votes. any others? I have NO problem what-so-ever shutting down this list. The behavior and ignorance of the people on it is unacceptable as far as I am concerned. This list is to generate evangelism, and enthusiasm amung the Hotline community. As well as to make important announcements. Hinks sees a good idea when he sees it. Send it to HIM, . If he feels the idea has potential, he will more than likely present it to the group for discussion. Too many msg's to the list have been not completely thought out, and a waste of bandwidth. >The only thing I >see people fighting about is wildcards and domain bans, MY and OTHER >peoples ideas have already solved this problem. > >-togtog If you would pay more attention on the list, you would see that thay have NOT. Hinks and I have been discusing another option, (via private mail and chat so as not to spam the list hint... hint...) which would solve 90% of the problem. the problem WILL be addressed, there is no longer any need to continue filling up everyones mailbox with methods that have holes in them. (including yours.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: A few more suggestions From: jonny Date: Sat, 8 Feb 97 14:18:23 -0000 Ok...about the banning...so you ban a WHOLE domain because of one person...someone else tries to get onto the server ...they get an error message that says something like: "Sorry, your domain has been banned from accessing this server, if you have any question you can E-Mail ." then they can e-mail you and you could make them a different account..which bupasses the ban. So what I am saying is make it so that it checks to see if the person has a REAL account on the server(not guest) and if they do...then check if there domain is banned. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: The Whole IP blocking thing. From: "Ford, Eric A (FORDEA5)" Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 14:15:37 -0500 First off I believe that all of the ideas for-mentioned have been good and creative. I have a hotline server, and before I even put it online I made a specific statement in my news file, stating that I would not tolerate any Malicious acts or Script wars or any acts that would infringe on the rights of other users. Yes this may seem like a Dominant point of view but, when you are the admin you are responsible for your site. I would like to say that although I have used this tactic it has worked fine I have had no instances where, there has been foul play. Do not expect Adam to solve all of your problems. if you are the admin, you have started your server for a reason but you also have the responsibility to care for your site and let your users know that you wont stand for any BS that they try. Thank you, -fredly -i am posting this message just to show another possibility *not* to start an argument. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: A few more suggestions From: Phil Hilton Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 14:32:12 -0500 >Ok...about the banning...so you ban a WHOLE domain because of one >person...someone else tries to get onto the server ...they get an error >message that says something like: "Sorry, your domain has been banned >from accessing this server, if you have any question you can E-Mail >." >then they can e-mail you and you could make them a different >account..which bupasses the ban. So what I am saying is make it so that >it checks to see if the person has a REAL account on the server(not >guest) and if they do...then check if there domain is banned. nbow THIS is a solution! :) Keep well thought out stuff like this comin! - Signature Begin - In the words of Bob: "Frog Blast The Vent Core!" Marathon Infinity! - Carnage Forever! - http://www.bungie.com - Signature End - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: A few more suggestions From: darkfire@flash.net (Matt Neuhaus) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 13:51:36 -0600 (CST) First of all, ALL Marathon games SUCK. Second, I joined this list to get HL site, all I'm hearing argueing..... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: "Hotline" From: David Murphy Date: Sat, 8 Feb 97 17:15:08 -0500 About the lists@hotline.com issue, I have a few ideas: [] In bold, italics, heading one, whatever, say on macline.fwparker.org/list.html that Hotline.com is not associated with the Hotline we know and love. Hinks should also do this on his site. [] Say the same as above in the LetterRip agknoledgements (the help file, info file, etc) [] Maybe even say it in your sig [] Post it to ML news (if you haven't already) [] Tell all your friends [] Distribute T-Shirts that say "DON'T EMAIL !" in big black letters [] Make custom baseball caps (http://www.customcaps.com/) alerting the world not to send mail to Jon Badeaux's site. [] Advertise on TV, on web sites, in the newspaper, that is a no-no.. hehhehe...Then again, maybe not.. --David M. ____________ ________________________________________ David Murphy <"David Murphy" davidmurphy@earthlink.net> Walt Whitman High School <"David Murphy" dmurphy@whitman.gmu.edu> Bethesda, Maryland, USA New! Hotline Nick. Reg: New! Homeschooling info: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: ML/HL appears in Evangelist...Again! From: David Murphy Date: Sat, 8 Feb 97 18:01:15 -0500 Macline (and therefore, Hotline) information has appeared in the Evangelist ...****again****! The full text that appeared will be posted soon to the EvangeList web site, probably at this URL: . In the meantime, that link will result in a 404 Not Found error, and you can see the original press release at . >Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 11:53:37 -0000 >From: EvangeList >To: "Macway" >Subject: PR - Macline Merger with MacOVER >Message-ID: <199702071954.LAA33694@scv2.apple.com> > >This announcement is from: > > >... Great work, guys! Once again, I can feel in my bones the Hotline user base rising..... :-) --David M. ____________ ________________________________________ David Murphy <"David Murphy" davidmurphy@earthlink.net> Walt Whitman High School <"David Murphy" dmurphy@whitman.gmu.edu> Bethesda, Maryland, USA New! Hotline Nick. Reg: New! Homeschooling info: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Easy, free Hotline Promotion Idea From: David Murphy Date: Sat, 8 Feb 97 18:18:23 -0500 Hey Everyone! Promote your favorite program for free--Uuse a signature for your e-mail and news postings that advocates Hotline! To set your signature, open Internet Config and click on Personal. You'll see a signature area. Or, if you do not use Internet Config, you can manually enter a signature in each program. In Claris Emailer and (YA) Newswatcher, the place to do so is in the Prefrences box, under the signature section. Here are some sample signatures: __________________________________________________________________________ Check out Hotline, a new program for Macs: <__________________________________________________________> \ <"Your Name..." email@address.goes.here> / / ...................................................... \ / \ / Check out Hotline, a neat new Mac app: \ / \ \ / ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ******************************************* * C H E C K T H I S O U T.. * * _ _ _ _ _ * * | | | | ___ | |_| (_)_ __ ___ * * | |_| |/ _ \| __| | | '_ \ / _ \ * * | _ | (_) | |_| | | | | | __/ * * |_| |_|\___/ \__|_|_|_| |_|\___| * * --------------------------------- * * - The NEW Macintosh Internet Tool!! - * * * * * ******************************************* --David M. ____________ ________________________________________ David Murphy <"David Murphy" davidmurphy@earthlink.net> Walt Whitman High School <"David Murphy" dmurphy@whitman.gmu.edu> Bethesda, Maryland, USA New! Hotline Nick. Reg: New! Homeschooling info: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: NEW URL: Hotline Nickname Registry From: David Murphy Date: Sat, 8 Feb 97 19:25:24 -0500 I have just reorganized my web site, and as a result, the Hotline Nickname Registry has moved! It can now be accessed at a shorter and better organized location: Hotline section (the "short" URL!): Nickname Registry Table: Nickname Submissions: FYI, the OLD address was: I've implimented "This page has moved" links at the old locations of the pages, however, I would appreciate it if those who link to me update their links. _____ _ _ _ |_ _| |__ __ _ _ __ | | _____| | | | | '_ \ / _` | '_ \| |/ / __| | | | | | | | (_| | | | | <\__ \_| |_| |_| |_|\__,_|_| |_|_|\_\___(_) --David M. ____________ ________________________________________ David Murphy <"David Murphy" davidmurphy@earthlink.net> Walt Whitman High School <"David Murphy" dmurphy@whitman.gmu.edu> Bethesda, Maryland, USA New! Hotline Nick. Reg: New! Homeschooling info: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: -please unsubscribe From: mishima@po.infosphere.or.jp (K. Mishima) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1997 09:25:43 +0900 (JST) -please unsubscribe me from the Hotline Users Mailing List Thanks Thanks & regards. K. Mishima Resource I'ntl Inc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Suggestions From: Huck Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 19:10:50 -0400 Someone wrote: > >A guest logs on and messages you, asking if the server has any cool games. > >You reply, "Of course we do." He replies, can you point me to where they > >are? Tell them, Dang you lazy, BOY! ....then move along. jr ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: "Hotline" From: Phil Hilton Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 18:11:55 -0500 >About the lists@hotline.com issue, I have a few ideas: > >hehhehe...Then again, maybe not.. heh, thanx! (i think), but I'm not all that worried. He's selling the domain to Hotmail, so we'll be THEIR problem. and our little freind will go away.. :) soooooo, does anybody have any plans on starting up a humor server? I'd be interested... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of The Hotline Users Digest --- Internet Message Header Follows --- Received: from macline.fwparker.org by bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca (SMI-8.6/SMI-4.0) id VAA01448; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 21:20:04 -0500 Message-Id: <199702090220.VAA01448.1448@bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca> From: The Hotline Users Mailing List To: The Hotline Users Mailing List Subject: The Hotline Users Digest #31 - 02/08/97 Date: Sat, 8 Feb 97 19:47:04 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Precedence: Bulk X-ListServer: LetterRip 1.0.1 by Fog City Software, Inc.