Friday, February 7, 1997 4:00:01 AM
          Message
  From:          The Hotline Users Mailing,Hotline@lists.fwparker.org,Internet
  Subject:   The Hotline Users Digest #29 - 02/07/97
  To:            Geoff Le Feuvre
                 The Hotline Users Mailing List <Hotline@lists.fwparker.org>,Internet
The Hotline Users Digest #29 - Friday, February 7, 1997

  Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL
          by  Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
  Re: PR: Macline Merger with MacOVER...
          by  Michael Sheets <msheets@wwisp.com>
  Re: Totally new idea!!! ;-)
          by  Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
  Re: Totally new idea!!! ;-)
          by  Phil Hilton <cheesy@cybertours.com>
  Re: ban wildcards
          by  Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
  Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL
          by  Jeffrey Boser <boserj@earthlink.net>
  Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL
          by  <XANiLOGx@aol.com>
  Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL
          by  Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
  Re: Totally new idea!!! ;-)
          by  <pramsey@mail.tds.net>
  Re: Totally new idea!!! ;-)
          by  Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
  Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL
          by  <XANiLOGx@aol.com>
  Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL
          by  Noah Daniels <ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu>
  Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL
          by  Michael Sheets <msheets@wwisp.com>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL
From: Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 15:54:39 +1100

>>Meanwhile, the user is opening up 300 connections to your server all at 
>>once, which causes it to crash....
>
>The one-connection per ip would help that,

one-connection per ip is not going to happen.  Why?  Because if you 
crash, your ghost is left behind and you can't login again.

____________________________________________________________________
Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline <http://netspace.net.au/~hinks/>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: PR: Macline Merger with MacOVER...
From: Michael Sheets <msheets@wwisp.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 22:53:47 -0600

>The Hotline software, (currently in b20,
>soon to be a final 1.1 release),

Unless I missed something it's still b19, trying to jump ahead are we? ;-)

--->  Michael Sheets       Infinite Designs
--->  5559 Spanish Trace   msheets@wwisp.com    
--->  Pinson, AL 35126

"For one to know how smart they really are one must only look at how 
stupid they were five years ago." - Michael Sheets


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Totally new idea!!! ;-)
From: Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 16:19:26 +1100

>Ok to solve the ban, etc. problems, what about creating a completely 
>random number at the first startup of hotline it would be a pretty good 
>size number (say 20 characters) and that way you can do "wildcard" ban 
>but it will only deny a person *if* both the ip and the number match. Not 
>a perfect solution as numbers could overlap but better than nothing.

And where would that number be stored?  In the prefs file?  Just delete 
your prefs file.

____________________________________________________________________
Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline <http://netspace.net.au/~hinks/>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Totally new idea!!! ;-)
From: Phil Hilton <cheesy@cybertours.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 00:07:53 -0500

>Another idea is that something that palace has when you ban someone you
>can specify the length of the banso someone blew his top and need to cool
>off, your could ban them for 24 hours and the system would automaticly
>delete the ban after 24 hours, sorta like punishment but not a complete
>ban forever.

now THAT I like! this business of "30 minutes. PERIOD!" is kinda
restrictive to the admins. how bout an option-clickban pulls up a dialog to
enter the desired ban time?  i realize that bans much longer than 30 mins
are useless except for domain bans..  But I might want smaller bans for
people like.. oh i dunno... ARLO, who kee using VaporTok when others find
it annoying cause they feel VERY left out. :P

hehe



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: ban wildcards
From: Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 16:39:29 +1100

>Then how about this? A Ban that can use wildcards BUT automatically
>unbans after 30-45 minutes?

So for 30-45 minutes some poor bastard can't login to his favourite 
server because someone else from the same ISP was being an idiot?

____________________________________________________________________
Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline <http://netspace.net.au/~hinks/>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL
From: Jeffrey Boser <boserj@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 23:04:35 -0700

>From:        Adam Hinkley, hinks@netspace.net.au
>
>>>Meanwhile, the user is opening up 300 connections to your server all at 
>>>once, which causes it to crash....
>>
>>The one-connection per ip would help that,
>
>one-connection per ip is not going to happen.  Why?  Because if you 
>crash, your ghost is left behind and you can't login again.

If you polled connections, even at long intervals of 1-5 minutes,
it could solve that.

.....jeff

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL
From: XANiLOGx@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 02:20:11 -0500 (EST)

>I will stop using Hotline as soon as it comes into affect, and
>use what influence I have to convince people to not use it.

Uhoh, you're a tough guy eh?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL
From: Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 18:39:15 +1100

>>one-connection per ip is not going to happen.  Why?  Because if you 
>>crash, your ghost is left behind and you can't login again.
>
>If you polled connections, even at long intervals of 1-5 minutes,
>it could solve that.

The server DOES do that.  But it can still take 10 minutes for a ghost to 
disappear.

Why not just set the timeout to 1 minute?  Because then people that ARE 
alive but just have a slow connection will get disconnected!!!

The facts are this:  computers crash.  That leaves a dead connection 
around.  It can take quite some time for the ghost to disappear AND THERE 
IS NO WAY AROUND THAT.

____________________________________________________________________
Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline <http://netspace.net.au/~hinks/>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Totally new idea!!! ;-)
From: pramsey@mail.tds.net
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 02:27:45 -0500

> And where would that number be stored?  In the prefs file?  Just delete 
> your prefs file.

Put it in a NEW file, named something like "HLCodes". If the file is
deleted from the prefs folder, then Hotline will stop working. The
person will have to download a new Hotline again to get back on.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Totally new idea!!! ;-)
From: Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 18:56:55 +1100

>now THAT I like! this business of "30 minutes. PERIOD!" is kinda
>restrictive to the admins. how bout an option-clickban pulls up a dialog to
>enter the desired ban time?  i realize that bans much longer than 30 mins
>are useless except for domain bans..  But I might want smaller bans for
>people like.. oh i dunno... ARLO, who kee using VaporTok when others find
>it annoying cause they feel VERY left out. :P

Yeah, I could make how long the ban lasts an option.  Permanent is not an 
option.

____________________________________________________________________
Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline <http://netspace.net.au/~hinks/>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL
From: XANiLOGx@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 02:43:59 -0500 (EST)

>Thats the biggest lie I've ever heard about irc.
>
>The irc ban method has RUINED its usability for the *majority*.  Domain
>bans are common, far more common than individual bans.  And since there
>is no meta-irc server to tell people where all the current servers are,
>people have to run through some bull-drek long list of servers just to
>find one that accepts them, and usually in a week they are banned there
>again, despite not using it wrong.
>
>Domain bans will do the same thing to hotline.

Were you banned alot as a child or something? =) If a domain is banned, that
is probably because the ops (people who control the channel or server) don't
want anyone from that domain joining their channel and/or server, and since
they do run the channel and/or server, I would say they have that right.

-Jason

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL
From: Noah Daniels <ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 02:48:29 -0500

>>>one-connection per ip is not going to happen.  Why?  Because if you
>>>crash, your ghost is left behind and you can't login again.
>>
>>If you polled connections, even at long intervals of 1-5 minutes,
>>it could solve that.
>
>The server DOES do that.  But it can still take 10 minutes for a ghost to
>disappear.
>
>Why not just set the timeout to 1 minute?  Because then people that ARE
>alive but just have a slow connection will get disconnected!!!
>
>The facts are this:  computers crash.  That leaves a dead connection
>around.  It can take quite some time for the ghost to disappear AND THERE
>IS NO WAY AROUND THAT.

But what about keeping the 10 minute timeout as it stands, but if a duplicate
user tries to login, send a check with a 30-second timeout or something? That
prevents simultaneous logins, but only under rare conditions would it cause any
problems.


-- Noah M. Daniels
    ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu
   http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/~ndaniel1/
    "He was a brave man who first ate an oyster"
      - Jonathan Swift

"'Internet' is the 'snausage' word of the 90's."  - Ben Vigoda '96

"Wonder is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins in wonder" -
Socrates



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL
From: Michael Sheets <msheets@wwisp.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 97 02:00:58 -0600

>>>The one-connection per ip would help that,
>>
>>one-connection per ip is not going to happen.  Why?  Because if you 
>>crash, your ghost is left behind and you can't login again.

What if you log in with the same ip as someone else the original one is 
kicked and the second is allowed? If someone is trying to log in twice 
they would still be on once and if they crashed it takes care if the 
ghost problem.

Or, what if the client program quickly checks to see if any other client 
propgrams are running and if the are connected to the same server as it 
would be trying too?

Again just some things to think about...

--->  Michael Sheets       Infinite Designs
--->  5559 Spanish Trace   msheets@wwisp.com    
--->  Pinson, AL 35126

"For one to know how smart they really are one must only look at how 
stupid they were five years ago." - Michael Sheets


----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of The Hotline Users Digest


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