Thursday, February 6, 1997 4:00:01 AM Message From: The Hotline Users Mailing,Hotline@lists.fwparker.org,Internet Subject: The Hotline Users Digest #27 - 02/06/97 To: Geoff Le Feuvre The Hotline Users Mailing List ,Internet The Hotline Users Digest #27 - Thursday, February 6, 1997 Re: 1 user per IP/account by (Josh Crawford) Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL by (tupper) Re: unsubscribe by Mark Walker Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL by Adam Hinkley Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL by Adam Hinkley account names by Adam Hinkley Re: Here's a fresh new idea by Adam Hinkley Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL by Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL by D. Gaul Re: account names by Noah Daniels Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL by ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: 1 user per IP/account From: jc42@poboxes.com (Josh Crawford) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 23:17:02 -0500 >>How about this? ... >>4* Then the server goes "Hey wait a minute here and pings the first >>name" >>5* The first name doesn't send back a ping. >>6* The server disconnects the first name. ... >>Any problems with this? > >Yes, there IS a problem with it! It can take 10 MINUTES before Open >Transport decides that a connection is dead. So during that time, you >would have to wait - unable to get in! But what if the specific ping, generated only when another "copy" of the user tries to log in, has a shorter time-to-live, or some equivalent? Then, when THAT ping times out (a much shorter time) the server can decide what to do... Is that off base? -Josh (Phaedrus) -- "We believe in One True Groove" jc42@poboxes.com http://oak.conncoll.edu/~jwcra/ <--Find a PGP key there... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL From: milk@best.com (tupper) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 20:08:27 -0700 >Domain name ban is what makes irc so unusable. Any server that allows >one user of a domain to ruin it for all other users of that domain is >a badly-designed server. Ok, I think irc isn't unusable. I think earthlink is lame. I think you should switch ISPs. Earthlink is just like AOL in so many respects that it's disgusting >I will stop using Hotline as soon as it comes into affect, and >use what influence I have to convince people to not use it. Ok, so you stop using hotline. I think a site that you want to be on, that you would contribute to in a positive way would prolly not ban a domain name. If you feel that you are denied access because of some unjust reason, then just don't put any thought into it and stop using (like you'd have a choice) that server. WE NEED BANS... PLAIN AND SIMPLE. THANK GOD THEY'RE COMMING. __ ich bin milk milk@best.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: unsubscribe From: Mark Walker Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 23:12:02 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Adam Hinkley wrote: > >Please unsubscribe > > Can we have a filter or something on the list? That whenever a message > appears with "unsubscribe", a message with instructions is mailed to that > person? > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline > Yes, send it repeatedly, along with a couple of subscriptions to a few junk mail lists... I'm just kidding, but the amount of ppl that can't follow directions is amazing.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL From: Adam Hinkley Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 15:32:13 +1100 >Domain name ban is what makes irc so unusable. Any server that allows >one user of a domain to ruin it for all other users of that domain is >a badly-designed server. I agree - I'm not putting domain name bans, I'm putting in IP address bans. No wildcards either. >(btw, the obvious solution is to allow people to accept personal >messages or not by making the other user's icon blink until you >click on it and bring up the messages, for example. Not to ban >them. Its unnecessary.) Meanwhile, the user is opening up 300 connections to your server all at once, which causes it to crash.... ____________________________________________________________________ Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL From: Adam Hinkley Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 15:34:27 +1100 >Domain bans will do the same thing to hotline. Who said anything about domain bans for hotline? IP ADDRESS BANS and no wildcards. ____________________________________________________________________ Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: account names From: Adam Hinkley Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 15:36:51 +1100 >Personally, I've >always thought that a specific account should lock your name. Now which is better - an option to force the person into using the account name, or to display both names (if different)? ____________________________________________________________________ Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Here's a fresh new idea From: Adam Hinkley Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 15:56:14 +1100 >If it wasn't for partial downloads, I would be screwed! However, my >collection of partial files collects (quite fast) hehe >and I think that being >able to simply double click on a file and have it connect me to the >appropriate server and begin downloading would be a major help. Yes, it would be good, and it's on my To Do list. >You could store the IP/password information in a resource file, or even >in the get info of the partial file, and have Hotline delete the >password info when it has finished downloading. Can't store in the resource fork - can't add a resource to a partially transfered resource fork! It'd be stored in the comments in an URL style format. ____________________________________________________________________ Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL From: pramsey@mail.tds.net Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 00:37:36 -0500 > >How about this? > >1* A person named pop logs onto a server. > >2* The person crashes. > >There name is still in th list. > >3* They log back on with the same name. > >4* Then the server goes "Hey wait a minute here and pings the first > >name" > >5* The first name doesn't send back a ping. > >6* The server disconnects the first name. > > > >If in step 5 the name DOES send back a ping then the server disconnects > >the second name and displays a message saying "Sorry that name is > >already being used, please choose a new one" > > > >Any problems with this? > > Definite problems if the user's on a static IP; when the server pings the IP, > it'll get an echo. I was wondering if you were going to say that. I wasn't clear enof, here is what I should have said... How about this? 1* A person named pop logs onto a server. 2* The person crashes. There name is still in th list. 3* They log back on with the same name. 4* Then the server goes "Hey wait a minute here" and sends a code to the Hotline Client of the first name NOT ping the IP. 5* The Client of the first name doesn't send back the code. 6* The server disconnects the first Client. If in step 5 the first Client DOES send back the code back then the server disconnects the second Client and displays a message saying "Sorry that name is already being used, please choose a new one" Any problems with this? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL From: "D. Gaul" Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 22:04:11 -0800 (PST) Ok, IRC is totally different than Hotline. The major reason is this. Their can be an unlimited amount of sites. On irc, there are many channels on one server, but, there are limited servers. If someone does a domain ban on their hotline, who cares? If they are that stupid to actually do a domain ban, then they deserve to lose those other people that may actually be able to add to the integrity of their site. You can move on. In most cases, finding a hotline server to log on to is not an extremely hard task. Its not like their are Topic specific hotlines starting up everywhere and you have to search for a wild card to find one you want to join. Come one.....hotline is totally different than irc. Its is on a way smaller scale user wise...there arent thousands of people logged onto one server. There are so many differences. Comparing it to irc is a big mistake in my eyes. If you are soooo worried that if someone does a ban on your domain name and you wont be able to get onto their site, then you are going to get an ulcer for nothin.. melbo On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Noah Daniels wrote: > >>From: Shane Crosby, s-crosby@worldnet.att.net > >> > >>Whats not right is the freedom for these losers to come on and ruin it > >>for others. IRC has ban for the same reason, and no one will get banned > >>unless there is reason for it, don'b be an asshole, and you wont get > >>banned. > > > >Thats the biggest lie I've ever heard about irc. > > > >The irc ban method has RUINED its usability for the *majority*. Domain > >bans are common, far more common than individual bans. And since there > >is no meta-irc server to tell people where all the current servers are, > >people have to run through some bull-drek long list of servers just to > >find one that accepts them, and usually in a week they are banned there > >again, despite not using it wrong. > > > > > You might try asking why people get banned, eh? If a given user finds himself > (or his domain) banned from 20 servers, he might try a little introspection > regarding his netiquette, if you know what I mean. > > Hypothetically speaking, of course ;-) > > > -- Noah M. Daniels > ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu > http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/~ndaniel1/ > "He was a brave man who first ate an oyster" > - Jonathan Swift > > "'Internet' is the 'snausage' word of the 90's." - Ben Vigoda '96 > > "Wonder is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins in wonder" - > Socrates > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: account names From: Noah Daniels Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 01:46:16 -0500 >>Personally, I've >>always thought that a specific account should lock your name. > >Now which is better - an option to force the person into using the >account name, or to display both names (if different)? The latter, definitely. -- Noah M. Daniels ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/~ndaniel1/ "He was a brave man who first ate an oyster" - Jonathan Swift "'Internet' is the 'snausage' word of the 90's." - Ben Vigoda '96 "Wonder is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins in wonder" - Socrates ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Friggin Losers Ruin HL From: pramsey@mail.tds.net Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 03:13:19 -0500 > >Domain bans will do the same thing to hotline. > > Who said anything about domain bans for hotline? IP ADDRESS BANS and no > wildcards. Sorry to bring this up but you NEED wildcards in the ban. How else could you block non-static IPs like mine. All the person would have to do is hang up then dial the internet again and they have a new IP with only the first 2 parts matching. Like this... 1* The user pop logs onto a site. His/hers IP is 200.194.95.17 2* pop starts breaking rules up and down. 3* An admin on the site, puts a ban for 200.194.95.17 4* pop tries for a few minute to get back in. 5* pop says to him/her self, "That jerk banned me, damn it!" 6* pop disconnects and reconnects to the internet. The IP is now 200.194.12.97 7* pop logs onto the site again and causes more problems. Now if that admin would have been able to put a ban for 200.194.*.* then steps 4-7 would not happen. It should be up to the owner of the site, not the users. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of The Hotline Users Digest --- Internet Message Header Follows --- Received: from macline.fwparker.org by bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca (SMI-8.6/SMI-4.0) id EAA08058; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 04:04:48 -0500 Message-Id: <199702060904.EAA08058.8058@bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca> From: The Hotline Users Mailing List To: The Hotline Users Mailing List Subject: The Hotline Users Digest #27 - 02/06/97 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 97 03:00:01 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Precedence: Bulk X-ListServer: LetterRip 1.0 by Fog City Software, Inc.