The Hotline Users Digest #182 - Sunday, May 18, 1997

  Re: Recognizing Mac Servers
          by James Norris <jnorris@napanet.net>
  Piracy, conspiracy, etc.
          by Gilder <gilder@best.com>
  Re: d/l,find,pc/mac,getinfo suggestions
          by Peter M. Pearson <bozo5000@earthlink.net>
  Re: The Hotline Users Digest #176 - 05/13/97
          by Peter M. Pearson <bozo5000@earthlink.net>
  Re: Recognizing Mac Servers
          by Peter M. Pearson <bozo5000@earthlink.net>
  Re: Recognizing Mac Servers
          by Peter M. Pearson <bozo5000@earthlink.net>
  Re: Piracy, conspiracy, etc.
          by Jason Yates <bit@cyberstreet.com>
  Re: The Hotline Users Digest #179 - 05/15/97
          by Huck <jason@HotlineSW.com>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Recognizing Mac Servers
From: James Norris <jnorris@napanet.net>
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 09:16:17 -0800

>On 5/14/97 12:25 AM EDT, The Hotline Users Mailing List
>(Hotline@www.fwparker.org) wrote:
>
>>I like the idea of coloring servers. I have made a picture at
>>http://www.bewley.net/~togtog/hl/
>>
>>I worked 3 hours on the picture and 5 minutes on the page, please go look
>>at it and give your vote. That includes you Huck! Thank you!
>
>Paul--
>
>I'd like to cast my (belated) thanks and approval.
>
>Thank you for spending so much time working to better Hotline!

How about (this is just a suggestion) letting server ops pick icons for
their servers, such as default server icon, chat, Mac file, PC file,
generic file, BeOS file... I don't know if it would be a good idea to let
people create their own custom icons for their servers, though. This way,
server operators could indicate the purpose of their server regardless of
platform, i.e. a PC server could hold Mac files, etc. These icons would
replace the server icon there now. Hopefully when Hinks puts in sorting in
the lists, we could sort by icon, so the Tracker window would group like
servers. I'll leave the question of whether Mac or PC file servers would be
listed first to the crowds. (Or maybe have the order chosen settled
according to the platform on which the client is running.) Let me know what
you think.



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Piracy, conspiracy, etc.
From: Gilder <gilder@best.com>
Date: Sat, 17 May 97 13:07:00 -0700

>Just to let everyone know, for the past month, my colleagues and I have 
>been working behind the scenes preparing for a major piracy discussion. 
>The details will be announced in a press release as soon as things are 
>finalized, but in the meantime, let me assure you that you can look 
>forward to meeting some *very* important people there.
This stinks of censorship to me... In my mind this seems like they are 
planning something overly restrictive. That is, if they restrict piracy 
at all it will have been overdone. Please don't put a cumbersome "safety 
lock" on this wonderful tool.

Gabriel Gilder
Carnage Inc.
http://www.best.com/~gilder/marathon/
gilder@best.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: d/l,find,pc/mac,getinfo suggestions
From: "Peter M. Pearson" <bozo5000@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 17 May 97 20:10:35 -0400

Quoted text is from Noah M. Daniels, on 5/12/97 2:34 AM.

>>Here are some little feature/fix requests/suggestions for Hotline:
>>
>>1) Make it so if a file is downloaded to somewhere other than the =
download
>>folder, using the option key (e.g. not an alias of the d/l folder), then
>>you can resume that download. Right now, if I download a file to, say, my
>>documents folder not my downloads folder and I stop the download and then
>>try to resume it I can't, I can only replace the existing file.
>>
>
>Not so. Click 'replace' and then the familiar cancel/replace/resume dialog
>will come up, allowing you to resume it.

Hmmm=8A Maybe that little thing should be fixed. I'm not a =
programmer, but you should be able to somehow surpress that =
'Replace?' box. Maybe a save into box. U know, one of those annoying =
thingees where you select a folder to save into, but not a file name? =
Usually used to select a place to download to in web browsers/AOL's =
download mangler (spelling error on purpose), etc...

Just a thought=8A

.................................................................
                       . Peter M Pearson, Jr.
  Grand Nagus Zek:     . 
                       . <bozo5000@earthlink.net>
 "I'm old. The fire    .
 dims. I'm just not as . Hotline Nick: Gul Dukat
 greedy as I used to   ..........................................
 be."                  .
                       . Do you believe in Macintosh?
                       .  <http://www.evangelist.macaddict.com> 
                       .


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: The Hotline Users Digest #176 - 05/13/97
From: "Peter M. Pearson" <bozo5000@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 17 May 97 20:10:44 -0400



>>That occurs on high speed connections.  Nearly finished fixing.  And may
>>I take this opportunity to curse Open Transport once again.  #@*$#%&*
>>Open Transport!

Anyone know if FreePPP can be safely be installed over OT/PPP?

or at this end is OT better? (this end being the end user, not the 
programmer)

I know this is off-topic. If ya wanna flame me, <president@whitehouse.gov>
:-)

.................................................................
                       . Peter M Pearson, Jr.
 "Drinking fake ale is .
 better then drinking  . <bozo5000@earthlink.net>
 water."               .
                       . Hotline Nick: Gul Dukat
    - Klingon Proverb  ..........................................
                       .
                       . Do you believe in Macintosh?
                       .  <http://www.evangelist.macaddict.com> 
                       .
  


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Recognizing Mac Servers
From: "Peter M. Pearson" <bozo5000@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 17 May 97 20:10:49 -0400

Quoted text is from Adam Hinkley, on 5/13/97 9:30 PM.

>>ok, that is a good idea, fundamentaly....but what happens if (for some
>>reason known only to god) i, a mac owner, want to go to a pc server....
>
>Then you use a PC tracker.

What if some PC server admin finds out that the Mac trackers are more 
stable, and moves his server, and monkey-see-monkey-do, the others 
follow. That would get us where?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Recognizing Mac Servers
From: "Peter M. Pearson" <bozo5000@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 17 May 97 20:10:52 -0400

Quoted text is from Noah M. Daniels, on 5/13/97 10:27 PM.

>>Perhaps a better way to do it would be so that if you're a mac person,
>>you don't see windoze servers at all.   ie, use different trackers.
>>Someone running a tracker can say that their tracker is for mac servers
>>only.  Or for windoze servers only.  Or for servers devoted to topic xyz.
>
>That is a good idea, provided the Tracker gets a few enhancements:
>bookmarks (which I think has already been discussed), some sort of
>filtering/searching (beyond just typing in the first few characters; it
>should ideally have a 'find' command) and perhaps both short-description
>and long-description fields - the short description is the 1-liner that is
>currently there, and the long description can be viewable by getting info
>on the server...

Yeah, horozontal scrolling sux. put a char limit on the short description.

.................................................................
                       . Peter M Pearson, Jr.
Rule of Acquisition 1: . 
                       . <bozo5000@earthlink.net>
 "Once you have their  .
 money, you never give . Hotline Nick: Gul Dukat
 it back."             ..........................................
                       .
                       . Do you believe in Macintosh?
                       .  <http://www.evangelist.macaddict.com> 
                       .


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Piracy, conspiracy, etc.
From: bit@cyberstreet.com (Jason Yates)
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 20:22:50 -0400

Gilder wrote:
>> Just to let everyone know, for the past month, my colleagues and I have
>> been working behind the scenes preparing for a major piracy discussion.
>> The details will be announced in a press release as soon as things are
>> finalized, but in the meantime, let me assure you that you can look
>> forward to meeting some *very* important people there.

> This stinks of censorship to me... In my mind this seems like they are
> planning something overly restrictive. That is, if they restrict piracy
> at all it will have been overdone. Please don't put a cumbersome "safety
> lock" on this wonderful tool.

Uhmm, all he said was they are going to have a chat on the topic of
piracy. How does that "stink of censorship" or even have anything to do
with it?

-Jason

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: The Hotline Users Digest #179 - 05/15/97
From: Huck <jason@HotlineSW.com> (by way of Phil Hilton)
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 21:01:35 -0400

Hi Hotline users,

Thanks for all the comments . here are my selected responses.

>----------------------------------------------------------------------

>So, are all those Hotline "servers" killing the Mac market, just when
>they needed their customers best?
>
>Come to think of it:
>
>Could it be that the Microsnort employees have found out about Hotline,
>pirated Macintosh software, opening up lots of Hotline "servers" ("owned"
>by those same employees), "giving" away Macintosh software just to see
>the ship sink...?????? Too far-fetched?
>
>Business is war you know....
>
>/Bengt Stenstrom
>bengt.stenstrom@swipnet.se

yes too far fetched.the situation will be upon both platforms once the PC
version comes out. We are not making Hotline to pirate warez. We are
focusingon the collaborative/groupware market as well we are providing a
viable solution for remote access.

Hotline extends your desktop over the internet and uses the internet as the
backbone rather than a costly private server. Simply !!!!

>----------------------------------------------------------------------

>
>Hate to tell ya.. But if I remember hinks orginal hotline annoucement it
>clear stated
>that hotline was a WAREZ intended software package. In addition In
>version of hotline including version as late as b19, Hotline did contain
>a warez site in the bookmarks
>
>>From: Avi Oslick <standard@netaxs.com>

that was then this is now. I cannot confirm one way or another if that was
included by mistake or not. I would guess it was. We have been aware of the
piracy issue for a while and as Adam said Hotline Communications does not
condone Pir8ing. To address this issue in attempt top educate the users we
will have put together a wonderful and experienced panel of experts to
discuss the problem of piracy on the NET not just Hotline.

Try to understand there are more warez distributed by other means than
Hotline. eg. IRC, Netscape, IE,  Anarchie, Fetch and a slew of others.

Now stop picking on just us. =)>

>----------------------------------------------------------------------

>I think mac people need to see pc servers and vice versa.  I'm not opposed
>to separate trackers, but as an admin of Newton Intelligence, I need PC
>people to see my server.
>
>We have files that ideally should be accessable to mac, pc, unix, and amiga
>users.  The more people that can connect to our server, the better.
>
>-->David out.

I agree. The systems should be wide open for everyone. An information
server with text or messages should not discriminate. There should be no
discussion on segregating servers. Can't we all just live together happily
in this cyberworld.

>----------------------------------------------------------------------


>Second of all, piracy itself doesn't even hurt the market, considering
>that most pirated software 1) isn't used for any great profit; and 2)
>probably wouldn't be purchased by the pirater either way. I mean, take
>your average 13 year old wannabe-hacker pirate. He's browsing around
>some Hotline servers, and ends up downloading Photoshop. After this he
>trys it out, gets bored of wondering how to use it, and throws it in his
>folder of warez. No loss for the company, and Billy is satisfied with
>another days good work. This is how the majority of software piracy
>happens...


so truie. Also it happens that PS is so bug that they pitch it to
accomodate the newest release of the mac 8 OS =)>
If they like it and use it thay may end up using it. I se warez as education.

>----------------------------------------------------------------------

>Why not make 1.1 Final, 1.5 instead?

We should consider this since the change is immense.

>----------------------------------------------------------------------


>P.S. to the microsoft Idea. if this is ported and there are ppl out
>there pirating Office and Win95 then this'll really be a poing of
>attention. I can imagine a 20/20 report "A new on-line community is a
>cesspool of software-piracy and pornography", "Here is Jim with an
>exclusive interview with Bill Gates on the subject."
>Hotline is software (As opposed to FTP and IRC) and can be "I guess"
>shut down if it is in the interest of a comepany (Adobe, Microsoft) to
>do so. Might I addd that microsoft is VEERRYYY particular about the
>pirating of it's products.


>Leto_II

If microsoft wishes to shut us down on that basis, then they would also be
willing to discontinue shipping IE, which is a larger source of piracy. The
NET IS A PLACE WHERE pir8ing exists. Hotline IS not WAREZ. Hotline is an
application like any other in it's industry... THE INTERNET.

Now let's just stop this please.

I would love to be on 20/20. They are fair and would look at both sides
thus I can be on TV. =)>

and I can call Bill Gates names =)> of course on behalf of all of you =)>

>----------------------------------------------------------------------

>Hinks when you gonna get started on MacOS 8 ccompatibility?
>
>DANGER
>Great White Sharks (Carcharodon carcharias) hunt for sea lions, harbor
>seals, elephant seals and other sea creatures in many prime surfing areas.
>If you, in any way, resemble a plump, aquatic creature with short, stubby
>appendages extending from its sides, DO NOT SURF.

ummm ya!!! =/ BTW hotliners swim... we don't surf. Surfing is for lamos. =)>

>----------------------------------------------------------------------

>As an aside: if the cost of commercial software includes the cost of
>developing copy protection for it, then I am in effect paying for piracy
>whether I pirate or not.  Can't this be viewed as *encouragement* to pirate
>"my fair share", i.e., software equal in value to the "extra" I have paid
>for copy protection?  This is probably an argument that has been covered
>before, but I'm interested to see the responses.

hmmm... I never thought of it that way. interesting =)>

>----------------------------------------------------------------------


over and out =)>

cheers all,

jr
--


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
jason roks
corporate development
jason@hotlineSW.com
Hotline Communications
http://www.hotlineSW.com
hotline://169.244.153.3
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of The Hotline Users Digest