The Hotline Users Digest #176 - Tuesday, May 13, 1997

  Re: "Wait one gosh darn cotton pickin' moment!" :)
          by Noah M. Daniels <ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu>
  Re: d/l,find,pc/mac,getinfo suggestions
          by Noah M. Daniels <ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu>
  Re: Open Letter to the Hotline Community
          by Noah M. Daniels <ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu>
  Re: Open Letter to the Hotline Community
          by Noah M. Daniels <ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu>
  Re: Open Letter to the Hotline Community
          by Michael Ostrer <mikeynyc@prodigy.net>
  Re: "Wait one gosh darn cotton pickin' moment!" :)
          by Michael Ostrer <mikeynyc@Prodigy.Net>
  Re: d/l,find,pc/mac,getinfo suggestions
          by Denny Henderson <denny@geek.it.iupui.edu>
  Re: Open Letter to the Hotline Community
          by Noah M. Daniels <ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu>
  Re: Open Letter to the Hotline Community
          by togtog -Paul Ramsey <togtog@bewley.net>
  Re: Open Letter to the Hotline Community
          by Benjamin Begeal <st96pyq9@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu>
  high Bandwidth bug..
          by Jamez <jamez@v-wave.com>
  Re: high Bandwidth bug..
          by Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
  Re: high Bandwidth bug..
          by Noah M. Daniels <ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu>
  Re: high Bandwidth bug..
          by J.Gordon)(by way of Phil Hilton <admin1@krazynet.com>
  Re: high Bandwidth bug..
          by J.Gordon)(by way of Phil Hilton <admin1@krazynet.com>
  Re: high Bandwidth bug..
          by togtog -Paul Ramsey <togtog@bewley.net>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: "Wait one gosh darn cotton pickin' moment!" :)
From: "Noah M. Daniels" <ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu> (by way of
 cheesy@cybertours.com (Phil Hilton))
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 07:33:27 +0100

>       Many of you seem to think you are not listened too... well.. YOUR
>WRONG. (Otherwise we wouldn't know that you think we don't now would we?
=]
>) ALL messages mail to us, uploaded to the HL Comm Hotline Server,
><hotline://169.244.153.3>, or found by us in various server's news, ARE
>READ, THOUGHT ABOUT, AND CONCIDERED. Just because we do not respond to
>everything we get does not mean we do not listen. 99.9% of the time I
don't
>respond, is lack of time. All of us get an obscene amount of mail each
day.
>It gets hard to keep up at times.
>
>       If you do not know how to reach us in a place other than this list,
>please visit <http://www.hotlinesw.com/contact.html> That page has the
>addresses of all high ranking employess of the company. I would ask that
>you do not bug Adam Hinkley, CEO/Lead Programmer, Jason Roks, Corporate
>Development/Project Leader, or David Bordin, Chief Financial Officer; as
>they have enough to do already out there saving the world. :) In addition,
>you can mail all of us at once by sending mail to
><mailto://hotlinepr@lists.fwparker.org>

I'm really glad you guys are listening. The problem is that we, the users,
were getting the impression that you were not. Part of listening
effectively is replying to what people say, not necessarily to everything
they say, but to some things. While you may have taken everything in that
everyone's said, it has seemed to many users that you weren't paying
attention at all. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but I think it was an
understandable misunderstanding.




-- Noah M. Daniels
    ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu
   http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/~ndaniel1/
    "He was a brave man who first ate an oyster"
      - Jonathan Swift

What began
as desire

will end
wiser."

- Allen Ginsberg

"Wonder is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins in wonder" -
Socrates



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: d/l,find,pc/mac,getinfo suggestions
From: "Noah M. Daniels" <ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu> (by way of
 cheesy@cybertours.com (Phil Hilton))
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 07:34:20 +0100

>Here are some little feature/fix requests/suggestions for Hotline:
>
>1) Make it so if a file is downloaded to somewhere other than the download
>folder, using the option key (e.g. not an alias of the d/l folder), then
>you can resume that download. Right now, if I download a file to, say, my
>documents folder not my downloads folder and I stop the download and then
>try to resume it I can't, I can only replace the existing file.
>

Not so. Click 'replace' and then the familiar cancel/replace/resume dialog
will come up, allowing you to resume it.




-- Noah M. Daniels
    ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu
   http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/~ndaniel1/
    "He was a brave man who first ate an oyster"
      - Jonathan Swift

What began
as desire

will end
wiser."

- Allen Ginsberg

"Wonder is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins in wonder" -
Socrates



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Open Letter to the Hotline Community
From: "Noah M. Daniels" <ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu> (by way of
 cheesy@cybertours.com (Phil Hilton))
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 07:34:23 +0100

>>To make matters worse, Hotline 1.1b22 is going to be a private beta,
>>with Nondisclosure Agreements and all!
>
>No it's not.  When b22 is ready, it will be publicly available.
>Although, as with all previous versions, some people will get
>"pre-releases" to test for major bugs etc.

That's a huge relief. The web page implied otherwise. Thanks, Hinks!


>Okay okay enough, you've gone off on something that you haven't verified
>first.  If you had asked me, you would have found out that b22 _is_ going
>to be available to the public.
>
>Noah and everyone else:  before you write multi-page open letters, check
>the facts with ME.  Not anyone else.

Sorry. I thought, as did many others, that the information on the Hotline
Software web page was accurate; same for the info in the b22
registration-confirmation email that mentioned an NDA.




-- Noah M. Daniels
    ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu
   http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/~ndaniel1/
    "He was a brave man who first ate an oyster"
      - Jonathan Swift

What began
as desire

will end
wiser."

- Allen Ginsberg

"Wonder is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins in wonder" -
Socrates



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Open Letter to the Hotline Community
From: "Noah M. Daniels" <ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu> (by way of
 cheesy@cybertours.com (Phil Hilton))
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 07:34:27 +0100

>
>>And b22 _will_ be publicly available when it's ready.
>i am 99% sure that Noah ment the beta testing of the pre-b22 stuff :)

Nope. The pre-betas have always been sort of informally NDA'd, or certainly
non-distributable. But the web page registration really did imply that BETA
TWENTY-TWO was going to be NDA'd and private, though anyone could register
for it. NDA means you cannot talk about it with anyone. That's what
disturbed me. Now, Hinks has said that this won't be the case, and I'm
glad. But the web page implied otherwise. So I guess it's just an issue of
internal communication then, eh?




-- Noah M. Daniels
    ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu
   http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/~ndaniel1/
    "He was a brave man who first ate an oyster"
      - Jonathan Swift

What began
as desire

will end
wiser."

- Allen Ginsberg

"Wonder is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins in wonder" -
Socrates



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Open Letter to the Hotline Community
From: Michael Ostrer <mikeynyc@prodigy.net> (by way of
 cheesy@cybertours.com (Phil Hilton))
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 13:50:04 +0100

>Okay okay enough, you've gone off on something that you haven't verified
>first.  If you had asked me, you would have found out that b22 _is_ going
>to be available to the public.
>
>Noah and everyone else:  before you write multi-page open letters, check
>the facts with ME.  Not anyone else.

Unbelievable! Could it be true that this whole ridiculous episode could
have been avoided if the person that wrote that first "open letter" had
bothered to speak with someone directly involved with the company instead
of just making assumptions from rumors he heard from friends and
acquaintances????

I hope Noah, that you read  Mr. Hinkley's reply to your "open letter" and
that it will teach you to save the ridiculous, inane, truly unimportant
and, now, we see, untrue statements for your diary instead of wasting all
of our time that we could have been discussing the product and it's
features.

Michael O.



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: "Wait one gosh darn cotton pickin' moment!" :)
From: Michael Ostrer <mikeynyc@Prodigy.Net> (by way of
 cheesy@cybertours.com (Phil Hilton))
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 13:50:07 +0100

Noah Daniels writes:

>I'm really glad you guys are listening. The problem is that we, the users,
>were getting the impression that you were not. Part of listening
>effectively is replying to what people say, not necessarily to everything
>they say, but to some things. While you may have taken everything in that
>everyone's said, it has seemed to many users that you weren't paying
>attention at all. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but I think it was an
>understandable misunderstanding.


Noah, please do not speak for anyone but yourself! You should not be
using the words "we" or "us" in your posts, but "I" and "me". You have
not been elected as the official spokesperson for Hotline users (at least
I never got to vote) so please restrict your comments and opinions to the
first person and let the rest of us speak for ourselves.

Michael O.



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: d/l,find,pc/mac,getinfo suggestions
From: Denny Henderson <denny@geek.it.iupui.edu> (by way of
 cheesy@cybertours.com (Phil Hilton))
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 13:50:09 +0100

Maybe an option:

to show PC's
Show MAC's
SHow ALL


I'm not a programmer so I have no clue if that's difficult.

I would like that option very much.

Denny



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Open Letter to the Hotline Community
From: "Noah M. Daniels" <ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu> (by way of Phil Hilton)
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 16:07:38 -0400

>>Okay okay enough, you've gone off on something that you haven't verified
>>first.  If you had asked me, you would have found out that b22 _is_ going
>>to be available to the public.
>>
>>Noah and everyone else:  before you write multi-page open letters, check
>>the facts with ME.  Not anyone else.
>
>Unbelievable! Could it be true that this whole ridiculous episode could
>have been avoided if the person that wrote that first "open letter" had
>bothered to speak with someone directly involved with the company instead
>of just making assumptions from rumors he heard from friends and
>acquaintances????

Sorry. I made the mistake of thinking that the web page and the
beta-testing confirmation email carried some weight of authority for the
company. How foolish of me.




-- Noah M. Daniels
    ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu
   http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/~ndaniel1/
    "He was a brave man who first ate an oyster"
      - Jonathan Swift

What began
as desire

will end
wiser."

- Allen Ginsberg

"Wonder is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins in wonder" -
Socrates



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Open Letter to the Hotline Community
From: togtog -Paul Ramsey <togtog@bewley.net> (by way of Phil Hilton)
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 17:58:24 -0400

>>Unbelievable! Could it be true that this whole ridiculous episode could
>>have been avoided if the person that wrote that first "open letter" had
>>bothered to speak with someone directly involved with the company instead
>>of just making assumptions from rumors he heard from friends and
>>acquaintances????

>Sorry. I made the mistake of thinking that the web page and the
>beta-testing confirmation email carried some weight of authority for the
>company. How foolish of me.

So I made the same mistake,
the home page at http://www.hotlineSW.com/ says...

>Register to be a beta tester for MacOS version
>1.1b22.



the HotlineSW page http://www.hotlineSW.com/macb22.html says...

>Hotline Communications is close to releasing MacOS v1.1b22 of
>the Hotline Client/Server. This release will feature a completely
>redesigned Threaded News System. This is one of the last
>remaining pieces before the Final Release version1.1, look for it
>soon.

>To register for our beta testing team, please fill out the form
>below.
>
> First Name:         Last Name:
>
>
> Email Address:       Country:
>
>
> Operating System Version:         Processor Type:
>
> Comments:


.......................................................

 ____________________________________________________________
|     togtog -- Paul Ramsey       |    togtog@bewley.net     |\
|---------------------------------|--------------------------| |
|      Knoxville, TN, USA         |   -- togTech Design --   | |
|  http://www.bewley.net/~togtog  | HTML, Graphics, Perl CGI | |
|             -- togtog - Always and forever --              | |
|____________________________________________________________| |
\_____________________________________________________________\|


Do you believe in Macintosh? Please check out:
<http://www.evangelist.macaddict.com/>

Macs are PCs with brains!



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Open Letter to the Hotline Community
From: Benjamin Begeal <st96pyq9@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu> (by way of Phil
 Hilton)
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 19:02:19 -0400


>
>Sorry. I made the mistake of thinking that the web page and the
>beta-testing confirmation email carried some weight of authority for the
>company. How foolish of me.
>
>
>
>
>-- Noah M. Daniels
>    ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu
>   http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/~ndaniel1/
>    "He was a brave man who first ate an oyster"
>      - Jonathan Swift
>

Yeah Noah you know you cant believe everything you read on the web. All
those ppl out there just want to post something regardless of whether or
not its the truth. I was hoodwinked by the same webpage. How foolish of all
of us



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: high Bandwidth bug..
From: Jamez <jamez@v-wave.com> (by way of Phil Hilton)
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 19:16:55 -0400

there seems to be a bug, when  person with alot of bandwidth downloads
something... The transfer stalls until you either chat or reload the
directory.. is this going to be fixed in the next release..? (kinda
anoying)  =)

When is the next release of Hotline going to come out..?

Thanks in Advance
          James



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: high Bandwidth bug..
From: Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
Date: Tue, 13 May 97 11:02:41 +1000

>there seems to be a bug, when  person with alot of bandwidth downloads
>something... The transfer stalls until you either chat or reload the
>directory.. is this going to be fixed in the next release..? (kinda
>anoying)  =)

That occurs on high speed connections.  Nearly finished fixing.  And may 
I take this opportunity to curse Open Transport once again.  #@*$#%&* 
Open Transport!

By the way, I did some tests with powermacs and 10BaseT, and it appears 
that Open Transport is not capable of more than 600K/sec.    10BaseT can 
theoretically go at 1M/sec.

Oh yeah, where the new version of Hotline got around 500K/sec, mac file 
sharing got 150K/sec :)

...........................................................
 /|  _
/ | | |                     Adam Hinkley
| |_| |                     CEO/Software Development
|  _  | O T L I N E
| | | |COMMUNICATIONS       adam@HotlineSW.com
|_| | |                     http://www.HotlineSW.com/
    |/


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: high Bandwidth bug..
From: "Noah M. Daniels" <ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu> (by way of Phil Hilton)
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 23:23:07 -0400

>
>By the way, I did some tests with powermacs and 10BaseT, and it appears
>that Open Transport is not capable of more than 600K/sec.    10BaseT can
>theoretically go at 1M/sec.
>

What kind of machine were you testing this on? Non-powermacs don't have DMA
ethernet, so you get shitty transfer rates. And even NuBus powermacs have
slow ethernet. FTP tests with two 9500s 10bT'ed via a minihub have hit
900K/s, if I remember an old Macworld article correctly. If you were merely
using an Etherwave or a crossover cable, don't expect the same kind of
speed you'd get with a properly configured ethernet network - like with a
minihub.

On a side note, I hear that while Rhapsody will have Sockets as its network
API at first, (ewww! sockets!) it may have a STREAMS interface in later
versions. And I mean real streams, not OT Streams. Yay!






-- Noah M. Daniels
    ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu
   http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/~ndaniel1/
    "He was a brave man who first ate an oyster"
      - Jonathan Swift

What began
as desire

will end
wiser."

- Allen Ginsberg

"Wonder is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins in wonder" -
Socrates



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: high Bandwidth bug..
From: admin1@krazynet.com (J.Gordon) (by way of Phil Hilton)
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 00:03:27 -0400

>there seems to be a bug, when  person with alot of bandwidth downloads
>something... The transfer stalls until you either chat or reload the
>directory.. is this going to be fixed in the next release..? (kinda
>anoying)  =)
>
>When is the next release of Hotline going to come out..?
>
>Thanks in Advance
>          James
same thing happens to me (on my PC Card on my PPC)




   |\
   | |  _.                   J.Gordon -- "PYRo"
   | |  \ \                  KrazyNet Web Services
   | |  / /                  Webmaster/Admin/CEO
   | |_/ / r a z y N e t     mailto:admin1@krazynet.com
   |  _ <  Web Services      PYRo's Scripts Page...
   | | \ \                   http://WWW.KrazyNet.COM/scripts
   | |  \ \                  Krazynet Home Page...
   |/    \ \                 http://WWW.KrazyNet.COM
          \/
"MKLINUX, My OS, and yours:For FREE!"
http://www.mklinux.apple.com
Get 2 Puters. Install MKLinux on one; MacOS on the other =P~

READ _____ READ _____ READ!!!!!!!!!
             \
             /
             \
             /
            \/

Need an E-Mail account? Need graphics for your web-page?
How about free HTML Templates, and commercial web-design?
Don't you want an online form so users of your product can register
online...Written in Perl, or C (if no CGI - Bin is available..)?
NO PROBLEM!!!!!   all you need to do, is either send E-Mail to
admin1@krazynet.com, or visit http://www.krazynet.com

READ _____ READ _____ READ!!!!!!!!!
             \
             /
             \
             /
            \/

**********************
* SCRIPT OF THE DAY! *
**********************
My script of the day.

Program Name.............: Hello World!
Languaage................: Perl
Needs....................: CGI.pm installed, SSi, and a
                           HTML page to execute it from w/in...
Platform.................: Un*x Based Operating System
Time Taken to write this.: 39 SECONDS

           <-- Clip Here... -->

#!/usr/bin/perl
# wow! a 2-line program!
# Hehehe
print "Content-type: text/html\n\n";
print "Hello World!\n"
# This script requires SSI (Server Side Included).
# to execute this use a <--#exec cgi="/cgi-bin/the_script.pl"-->
# (i think...i dont really use ssi stuff in my web-pages =)
# EX:<HTML><BODY><--#exec cgi="/cgi-bin/the_script.pl"--></BODY></HTML>


           <-- Clip Here... -->



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: high Bandwidth bug..
From: admin1@krazynet.com (J.Gordon) (by way of Phil Hilton)
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 00:04:19 -0400

ACTUALLY : for me. (that happens too)...but also when i try to download,
and after i start typing (in any application including Hotline), i freeze
up. this ONLY happens when im downloading w/ hl

>>there seems to be a bug, when  person with alot of bandwidth downloads
>>something... The transfer stalls until you either chat or reload the
>>directory.. is this going to be fixed in the next release..? (kinda
>>anoying)  =)
>
>That occurs on high speed connections.  Nearly finished fixing.  And may
>I take this opportunity to curse Open Transport once again.  #@*$#%&*
>Open Transport!
>
>By the way, I did some tests with powermacs and 10BaseT, and it appears
>that Open Transport is not capable of more than 600K/sec.    10BaseT can
>theoretically go at 1M/sec.
>
>Oh yeah, where the new version of Hotline got around 500K/sec, mac file
>sharing got 150K/sec :)
>
>...........................................................
> /|  _
>/ | | |                     Adam Hinkley
>| |_| |                     CEO/Software Development
>|  _  | O T L I N E
>| | | |COMMUNICATIONS       adam@HotlineSW.com
>|_| | |                     http://www.HotlineSW.com/
>    |/




   |\
   | |  _.                   J.Gordon -- "PYRo"
   | |  \ \                  KrazyNet Web Services
   | |  / /                  Webmaster/Admin/CEO
   | |_/ / r a z y N e t     mailto:admin1@krazynet.com
   |  _ <  Web Services      PYRo's Scripts Page...
   | | \ \                   http://WWW.KrazyNet.COM/scripts
   | |  \ \                  Krazynet Home Page...
   |/    \ \                 http://WWW.KrazyNet.COM
          \/
"MKLINUX, My OS, and yours:For FREE!"
http://www.mklinux.apple.com
Get 2 Puters. Install MKLinux on one; MacOS on the other =P~

READ _____ READ _____ READ!!!!!!!!!
             \
             /
             \
             /
            \/

Need an E-Mail account? Need graphics for your web-page?
How about free HTML Templates, and commercial web-design?
Don't you want an online form so users of your product can register
online...Written in Perl, or C (if no CGI - Bin is available..)?
NO PROBLEM!!!!!   all you need to do, is either send E-Mail to
admin1@krazynet.com, or visit http://www.krazynet.com

READ _____ READ _____ READ!!!!!!!!!
             \
             /
             \
             /
            \/

**********************
* SCRIPT OF THE DAY! *
**********************
My script of the day.

Program Name.............: Hello World!
Languaage................: Perl
Needs....................: CGI.pm installed, SSi, and a
                           HTML page to execute it from w/in...
Platform.................: Un*x Based Operating System
Time Taken to write this.: 39 SECONDS

           <-- Clip Here... -->

#!/usr/bin/perl
# wow! a 2-line program!
# Hehehe
print "Content-type: text/html\n\n";
print "Hello World!\n"
# This script requires SSI (Server Side Included).
# to execute this use a <--#exec cgi="/cgi-bin/the_script.pl"-->
# (i think...i dont really use ssi stuff in my web-pages =)
# EX:<HTML><BODY><--#exec cgi="/cgi-bin/the_script.pl"--></BODY></HTML>


           <-- Clip Here... -->



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: high Bandwidth bug..
From: togtog -Paul Ramsey <togtog@bewley.net> (by way of Phil Hilton)
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 00:17:23 -0400

>ACTUALLY : for me. (that happens too)...but also when i try to download,
>and after i start typing (in any application including Hotline), i freeze
>up. this ONLY happens when im downloading w/ hl

Same here, its happened about 40 times with b20 and about 2 times with b21.
I start a download and all is well, as soon as I say something is chat it
locks, my clock even stops but it keeps downloading.

.......................................................

 ____________________________________________________________
|     togtog -- Paul Ramsey       |    togtog@bewley.net     |\
|---------------------------------|--------------------------| |
|      Knoxville, TN, USA         |   -- togTech Design --   | |
|  http://www.bewley.net/~togtog  | HTML, Graphics, Perl CGI | |
|             -- togtog - Always and forever --              | |
|____________________________________________________________| |
\_____________________________________________________________\|


Do you believe in Macintosh? Please check out:
<http://www.evangelist.macaddict.com/>

Macs are PCs with brains!



----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of The Hotline Users Digest