The Hotline Users Digest #156 - Thursday, April 17, 1997

  Re: Suggestions for Hotline...
          by  Patrick L. Coffman <pcoffman@stanford.edu>
  Re: MULTICONNECT SPECIFICATION
          by  Jeremy Williams <jwilliams@RoanokeVA.net>
  Re: Suggestions for Hotline...
          by  Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
  Re: MULTICONNECT SPECIFICATION
          by  Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>


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Subject: Re: Suggestions for Hotline...
From: "Patrick L. Coffman" <pcoffman@stanford.edu> (by way of Phil Hilton)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 06:33:47 -0400

On 4/15/97 2:00 AM (-0800 GMT), someone, somewhere, with some program
probably wrote:

>>* Some sort of New File Notification System (NFNS :) acronyms may be
>>annoying, but they sound cool nontheless).  This would mean that a
>>preference file of some sort kept track of what files you had already
>>downloaded or looked at, or flagged as looked at , so you could tell when
>>new items were added to a server.  Similar to First Class mechanism.
>
>Good idea, but I think you'd have to especially select it for a server -
>you wouldn't want a preference file for every server you visit.

Actually what I was thinking is a single preferences file that keeps
track locally, and perhaps even by user ID, of what you have looked at or
marked "read," not individual preference files.  Sorry for the lack of
clarity.

>>* A way to dynamically update file lists (ie no need for refresh
>>command).  This should probably not be like the suggested update style
>>for Tracker lists, as described in reference to multiple connections
>>where it would update say every five minutes, but the server could send
>>out a generic update notice to all connected clients, and if the client
>>has that window open, the windows would request an refresh.
>
>It's going to update when you move a file, delete a file, rename a file,
>upload a file etc.

Which sounds wonderful, but what if another user on the same server makes
an update?  Then does it refresh as well?  Maybe this is what you meant,
but I am not sure.  This is what I was describing.  The basic idea is not
to have a use for the refresh button/command, which makes ftp so annoying
using clients like Fetch.

>>Also,
>>maybe something showing the speed of the server you are connected to (so
>>that I don't start a 20MB download from a 33.6kbps server).
>
>No point doing that - just because the server is a T1, doesn't mean it
>will be fast (could be very busy).

That makes sense, but what about maybe specifying the average throughput
that the server has been maintaining.  This might not be accurate right
at startup time, but it would quickly average out to the right area I
think.

>>* News window automatically goes to top when new news arrives.  (Also,
>>see note to follow on news features.)  Also, currently the news window
>>scrolls really choppily (even on an 8500/180).
>
>Won't apply to with the new news system I'm working on.

Any hints or previews? :)

>>* Save a download list across sessions (this may be supported, but I'm
>>not sure).
>
>A log?

Yes an no.  More of a system that could keep track of what you were
downloading, and if you disconnect/crash/etc., it would be able to
automatically resume downloads, or it would present a dialog/something
stating/indicating that
"you-had-a-download-in-progress-from-X-that-was-not-completed-would-you-lik
e-to-finish-it" type of thing.  (This would be for individual servers, or
you could call up a list of unfinished downloads from multiple servers
(which with multiconnect, all could just be stored in a hierarchical
lists under the download progress area, organized by server perhaps) so
that you could resume downloads.

>>* Drag-and-Drop for file manipulation.
>
>You can d&d to move files.  More d&d support is coming.

Awesome!

>>* More robust news system
>
>Already working on it.

Again, want to tease us with rumors? :)

Once more, let me express my great enthusiasm for Hotline and say what a
wonderful program it is: Thanks!  This is wonderful!  Keep up the great
work and know that this feedback is much appreciated.

Thanks again, Patrick

/END TRANSMISSION

Patrick L. Coffman                          <mailto:pcoffman@stanford.edu>
Stanford University            <http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~pcoffman/>



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Subject: Re: MULTICONNECT SPECIFICATION
From: Jeremy Williams <jwilliams@RoanokeVA.net> (by way of
 cheesy@cybertours.com (Phil Hilton))
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 07:59:33 -0500

>>One thing here.  I like the message window, and it would be nice if there
>>was a button in that window that would open the chat window of the server
>>that person is using.
>
>What if they're chatting on more than one server?  And what if the server
>they're chatting on does not allow guest access?  And what if they've
>changed servers after sending the private message?
>
>Easier just to send a private message saying "join me in chat at server
>1.2.3.4".

You have to be chatting on the same server as someone to get a private
message. , right?  And that message was passed thru a server to you, right?
Then open the chat window of that server.

Also, I think giving out people's IPs for direct private chat is a security
risk.  Only sys admins should have access to that info.  I don't want
spammers to be able to do a ping flood on me, etc.  In short, direct
private chat is BAD.


--
Jeremy Williams
jeremyw@usa.net







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Subject: Re: Suggestions for Hotline...
From: Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 14:45:47 +1000

>
>>>* Some sort of New File Notification System (NFNS :) acronyms may be
>>>annoying, but they sound cool nontheless).  This would mean that a
>>>preference file of some sort kept track of what files you had already
>>>downloaded or looked at, or flagged as looked at , so you could tell when
>>>new items were added to a server.  Similar to First Class mechanism.
>>
>>Good idea, but I think you'd have to especially select it for a server -
>>you wouldn't want a preference file for every server you visit.
>
>Actually what I was thinking is a single preferences file that keeps
>track locally, and perhaps even by user ID, of what you have looked at or
>marked "read," not individual preference files.  Sorry for the lack of
>clarity.

But would you really want it to store this info for every server you 
visit?  Would it be better to say "this is a server I visit frequently, 
keep track of what I've looked at" ?

>>It's going to update when you move a file, delete a file, rename a file,
>>upload a file etc.
>
>Which sounds wonderful, but what if another user on the same server makes
>an update?

Then your listing is out of date.  It's easy for the user list window to 
auto-update because there's only one list.  However, with files there's 
an unlimited number of folders, which makes things very difficult if you 
want it to auto-update.

Also, there is no way of telling if someone changes something in the 
finder.

>That makes sense, but what about maybe specifying the average throughput
>that the server has been maintaining. 

Unfortunately, due to a limitation in Open Transport, it's impossible to 
determine this with any useful accuracy.

>>>* Save a download list across sessions (this may be supported, but I'm
>>>not sure).
>>
>>A log?
>
>Yes an no.  More of a system that could keep track of what you were
>downloading, and if you disconnect/crash/etc., it would be able to
>automatically resume downloads,

Like if you double-clicked a partially transferred file it would connect 
to the server and resume the download.  On the To Do list.



...........................................................
 /|  _
/ | | |                     Adam Hinkley
| |_| |                     CEO/Software Development
|  _  | O T L I N E
| | | |COMMUNICATIONS       hinks@netspace.net.au
|_| | |                     http://netspace.net.au/~hinks/
    |/


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Subject: Re: MULTICONNECT SPECIFICATION
From: Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 14:52:42 +1000

>>>One thing here.  I like the message window, and it would be nice if there
>>>was a button in that window that would open the chat window of the server
>>>that person is using.
>>
>>What if they're chatting on more than one server?  And what if the server
>>they're chatting on does not allow guest access?  And what if they've
>>changed servers after sending the private message?
>>
>>Easier just to send a private message saying "join me in chat at server
>>1.2.3.4".
>
>You have to be chatting on the same server as someone to get a private
>message. , right?  And that message was passed thru a server to you, right?
>Then open the chat window of that server.

In the spec, I explained that private messages would not go thru the 
server.  The advantages of this are:

1) you can send/receive a message even if you're not connected to a server
2) less strain on servers aka faster transmission of message
3) a lot less confusing if you're on more than 1 server

>Also, I think giving out people's IPs for direct private chat is a security
>risk.  Only sys admins should have access to that info.  I don't want
>spammers to be able to do a ping flood on me, etc.

If you're worried about security, get your ISP to setup a firewall.  In 
fact, they probably already have one.  The next version of Hotline will 
support firewalls.




...........................................................
 /|  _
/ | | |                     Adam Hinkley
| |_| |                     CEO/Software Development
|  _  | O T L I N E
| | | |COMMUNICATIONS       hinks@netspace.net.au
|_| | |                     http://netspace.net.au/~hinks/
    |/


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End of The Hotline Users Digest