Tuesday, January 21, 1997 7:32:51 PM
          Message
  From:          The Hotline Users Mailing,Hotline@lists.fwparker.org,Internet
  Subject:   The Hotline Users Digest #9 - 01/21/97
  To:            Geoff Le Feuvre
                 The Hotline Users Mailing List <Hotline@lists.fwparker.org>,Internet
The Hotline Users Digest #9 - Tuesday, January 21, 1997

  Re: Leto_II's suggestions
          by  Steve Weintraub <swein@macconnect.com>
  Re: Other issues
          by  Guttorm Flataboe <gflatabo@sn.no>
  Re: New HotLine Idea - Easy - Not Pointless - Not FC
          by  Guttorm Flataboe <gflatabo@sn.no>
  Re: Other issues
          by  Steve Weintraub <swein@macconnect.com>
  Re: Chat problem
          by  Philipp Conrad <cowboy@tezcat.com>
  Re: Other issues
          by  Philipp Conrad <cowboy@tezcat.com>
  Re: Other issues
          by  Steve Weintraub <swein@macconnect.com>
  Re: question & suggestion
          by  Paul Berezanskiy <letoii@earthlink.net>
  [HL] Hardwrapping vs. Tabs
          by  jefftp <jefftp@purdue.edu>
  Hotline domain name
          by  David Murphy <davidmurphy@earthlink.net>
  Re: Chat problem
          by  David Murphy <davidmurphy@earthlink.net>
  Re: Other issues
          by  LaserLinX <lsrlnx@cp.duluth.mn.us>
  Re: Chat problem
          by  Huck <xinc@wwonline.com>
  Re: Chat problem
          by  Phil Hilton <linda@cybertours.com>
  Re: Chat problem
          by  tgregory <tgregory@compusmart.ab.ca>
  New Avara server...
          by  Phil Hilton <linda@cybertours.com>
  Freaktures!
          by  Huck <xinc@wwonline.com>
  Re: Freaktures!
          by  Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
  Re: Leto_II's suggestions
          by  Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
  Re: [HL] Hardwrapping vs. Tabs
          by  Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
  Re: Chat problem
          by  Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
  Re: Chat problem
          by  Noah Daniels <ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu>
  Re: Chat problem
          by  Royce Eddington <eddingto@ddbniac.com>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Leto_II's suggestions
From: Steve Weintraub <swein@macconnect.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 09:17:40 -0500

On 1/20/97 11:07 PM Philipp Conrad had the nerve to say...

>hotline.com and holine.org have both been taken, so we would have to be 
>creative.

How bout these:

www.hotlinerules.com

www.hinksisgod.com

www.hotlinenowarezplease.com

_________________________________________________
Steve Weintraub
Senior Manager, Catalogue Design
Sotheby's, Inc.
http://www.sothebys.com

From the lush hills of Sweden...it's V=E4porOS!
http://www.macconnect.com/~swein/vaporos.spml
_________________________________________________


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Other issues
From: Guttorm Flataboe <gflatabo@sn.no>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:22:54 +0100

>>Already done - double-click the bookmark you want instead of hotline.
>
>You COULD do that in netscape with a the meta tag.... but do they? NO.
>
>Hinks, I'm getting the feeling that people want it built in.

I agree with hinks, why can't U just start the bookmark? But then, this
won't make any server default.....



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: New HotLine Idea - Easy - Not Pointless - Not FC
From: Guttorm Flataboe <gflatabo@sn.no>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:16:27 +0100

>But what would show in tasks?  Multiple downloads and the latter ones
>queued?  Or one task that displays number of files downloaded (or total K
>downloaded out of total folder size!).
I would like:
One task that displays number of files downloaded AND total K
downloaded out of total folder size.
Or, maybe if U option-click on the task, it will show total K of total
folde size (or files d/l of files in folder).



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Other issues
From: Steve Weintraub <swein@macconnect.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 12:00:09 -0500

Might I suggest that hinks post to this group a list of what is =
coming in b20?
I have a feeling that 70% of the dribble in this mailing list is for =
features that either already exist and people don't RTFM, or things =
that are already in development for b20 or later; evidence by his =
oft-refrain of "on the to-do list"

Just my US$.02

_________________________________________________
Steve Weintraub
Senior Manager, Catalogue Design
Sotheby's, Inc.
http://www.sothebys.com

From the lush hills of Sweden...it's V=E4porOS!
http://www.macconnect.com/~swein/vaporos.spml
_________________________________________________


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Chat problem
From: Philipp Conrad <cowboy@tezcat.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:59:06 -0600 (CST)

how many characters.... I guess that could be desired by the user
somewhere...and then when they changed it the size of the window would
also change....or vica versa.

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                                   |             Philipp Conrad           |
|    "Being diplomatic is like      |     http://www.tezcat.com/~cowboy/   |
|    saying 'nice doggy' until      |            cowboy@tezcat.com         |
|    you can find a stick."         |           phil@theconrads.com        |
|                   - Takedown      |             cowboy@mcs.com           |
|                                   |            cowboy@ripco.com          |
|                                   |     philippc@students.fwparker.org   |
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Other issues
From: Philipp Conrad <cowboy@tezcat.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:02:00 -0600 (CST)

On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Phil Hilton wrote:

> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:20:10 -0500
> From: Phil Hilton <linda@cybertours.com>
> Reply-To: The Hotline Users Mailing List <Hotline@lists.fwparker.org>
> To: The Hotline Users Mailing List <Hotline@lists.fwparker.org>
> Subject: Re: Other issues
> 
> >1)  if you send a private message to somebody, and they have already
> >left, it should tell you.
> 
> Agreed. Not that i'm too blind, but I get stupid everyonce in a while too
> ya know....
> 
> >2)  then it could ask you if you would like to have that message emailed
> >to them  (this would be forwarding the message to an email address
> >specified by each user in the UserFiles area) or (and maybe better yet)
> >have the option to save the message for that user.  That way when the
> >user returns, he will see a window titled "Saved Messages" (which would
> >look similar to the news window) with a list of messages form people.
> 
> hinks had isaid that SMTP would be too much work to implement. but i REALLY
> like the msg wating thing.  Like having a virtual answering machine! course
> I don't know how it could deal with nick impersonating. IP's are dynamic
> too.
> 
> 

1)  you could set it to mail those message via an SMTP server you specify.



2)  for the messages idea, it would be sent to an account, not a
nickname.... assuming that people's login names are the same as their
nicknames.

> 

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                                   |             Philipp Conrad           |
|    "Being diplomatic is like      |     http://www.tezcat.com/~cowboy/   |
|    saying 'nice doggy' until      |            cowboy@tezcat.com         |
|    you can find a stick."         |           phil@theconrads.com        |
|                   - Takedown      |             cowboy@mcs.com           |
|                                   |            cowboy@ripco.com          |
|                                   |     philippc@students.fwparker.org   |
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Other issues
From: Steve Weintraub <swein@macconnect.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 12:30:49 -0500

>>2)  then it could ask you if you would like to have that message emailed =
to them 

Oh yeah, I can see it now, my in-box filled with messages like "Hey =
dude, know any kewl warez sites???!?!"  :P


_________________________________________________
Steve Weintraub
Senior Manager, Catalogue Design
Sotheby's, Inc.
http://www.sothebys.com

From the lush hills of Sweden...it's V=E4porOS!
http://www.macconnect.com/~swein/vaporos.spml
_________________________________________________


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: question & suggestion
From: Paul Berezanskiy <letoii@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:41:24 +0000

someone wrote
>>> >The description of the file gets erased???


>>> yes..   file comments are erased when rebuilding the desktop.



with techtool u can save the comments in info windows.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: [HL] Hardwrapping vs. Tabs
From: jefftp <jefftp@purdue.edu>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 14:20:15 -0500

>>    Zini:  Hey... I feel dorky tonight
>>  Cheesy:  Me too....huhuh....   got this server 
>>           crashes a lot.  What the hell's wrong
>>           with it?

>I could do that, and it would look quite nice, but the chat would have to 
>be hard wrapped - dunno if that's a good idea.

>And hardwrapped to how many characters?

Hmmm, couldn't you just set a tab stop (since I've never messed with a 
macintosh text display engine, I'm unsure) and still softwrap? It's no 
sunday picnic to program, but might prove to be an interesting weekend 
project.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Hotline domain name
From: David Murphy <davidmurphy@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 14:46:47 -0500

>hotline.com and holine.org have both been taken, so we would have to be 
>creative.

Yep. I fired up MISE, and a quick whois at internic revealed that 
hotline.com is owned by a BBS called Hotline, and Hotline.org is owned by 
the Church of Scientology. Huh? :o

Well, as a last resort, we could change the name of Hotline to something 
else! ;-)

Hmm..
{^v^}  /  David

               ________________________________________
      ________|            David C. Murphy             |_______
      \       |         ---------------------          |      /
       \      | http://home.earthlink.net/~davidmurphy |     /
        |     |        davidmurphy@earthlink.net       |    |
       /      |________________________________________|     \
      /__________)                                  (_________\


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Chat problem
From: David Murphy <davidmurphy@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 15:07:17 -0500

>>    Zini:  Hey... I feel dorky tonight
>>  Cheesy:  Me too....huhuh....   got this server 
>>           crashes a lot.  What the hell's wrong
>>           with it?
>
>I could do that, and it would look quite nice, but the chat would have to 
>be hard wrapped - dunno if that's a good idea.

I have an idea. Maybe you could build the inteligence into the client to 
automatically do the above. That is, the server would tell the client 
that so-and-so said blah, blag, blaj, (without line brakes) and the 
client would display it all pretty and stuff. The alligning would 
completly be completly up to the client program.

I would hate to see the ability to resize the chat window lost. That's 
one of those nice Macintosh thingies that Hotline is able to do.

David {^v^} Murphy

-                               -------                               -
               <"David Murphy" davidmurphy@earthlink.net>
               <http://home.earthlink.net/~davidmurphy/>
                      Hotline Nickname Registry:
     <http://home.earthlink.net/~davidmurphy/d/hotline_home.html>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Other issues
From: LaserLinX <lsrlnx@cp.duluth.mn.us>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:34:58 -0600

>>>Already done - double-click the bookmark you want instead of hotline.
>>
>>You COULD do that in netscape with a the meta tag.... but do they? NO.
>>
>>Hinks, I'm getting the feeling that people want it built in.
>
>I agree with hinks, why can't U just start the bookmark? But then, this
>won't make any server default.....

What is you have more than one copy of HotLine running.  Double-clicking a
bookmark file may not work.

  __                                 __
 /| |                               /| |                        \    /
| | |           LaserLinX          | | |  "Life is a terminal    \  /
| | |       Jeffrey J. Kouba       | | |  sexually transmitted    \/
| | |                              | | |  disease."               /\
| | |    lsrlnx@cp.duluth.mn.us    | | |_____                    /  \
| | |  irc.webmaster.com #MacLinX  | |_______|-----------------|>    \
| | |_______                       |/_______/                         \
| |_________|----------------------------------------------------------/
|/_________/



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Chat problem
From: Huck <xinc@wwonline.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:01:48 -0400

Why not write it off and call it a feature =)>

It seems more trouble than it's worth right now. I was thinking maybe
Adam spend his time re-doing the icons ;)

I hope no one minds but I spoke to an Apple interface designer and here
are his comments 


<snipped from converstaion during chess game>

You say, "you like it"

LuckyEddie says, "I have seen this before"
"I think the interface is gorgeous"
"the only think I don't like is the scroll bars"

LuckyEddie says, "but everything else is very nice"
"top quality interface"

LuckyEddie says, "I don't like what the program is used for a lot of the
time, but I love the interface. Who coded it?"

LuckyEddie says, "well, its sort of like a web server without having to
use a web browser"
"but no one is making any money off of browsers..."
"so the server end would have to make money"

just thought I'd toss that in.

jr

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Chat problem
From: Phil Hilton <linda@cybertours.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:07:37 -0500

>LuckyEddie says, "well, its sort of like a web server without having to
>use a web browser"
>"but no one is making any money off of browsers..."
>"so the server end would have to make money"

Yes, I've been trying to hold off on this in fear of Hotline
Commercialization.. BUT....

There is no REAL inscentive for hosting a Hotline server. We do it at ML
for the sence of accomplishment, and the fact that it looks REALLY good on
reumase. :)

Well, that's why _I_ do it. I can't speak for the other admins. dunno bout
them..


ANYWAY... the lack of financial inscentive might expain the lack of
non-warez servers out there.it's not like, if a server gets X amount of
hits a day, it can sell banner adds. I certaintly don't wanna see HL go
commercial, but i wouldn't mind tolerating a few ads presented upon login
to the MacWorld server.

And i'm going to put the little "2=A2" thing. Maybe if we ALL contribute, we
can get HL a domain!  :)

Cheesy

I'm begining tothink this post belongs on the HotlinePR list, but I'm too
lazy to change the "to:" address.  :P  hehe






----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Chat problem
From: tgregory <tgregory@compusmart.ab.ca>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 15:01:05 -0700

>>>    Zini:  Hey... I feel dorky tonight
>>>  Cheesy:  Me too....huhuh....   got this server 
>>>           crashes a lot.  What the hell's wrong
>>>           with it?
>>
>>I could do that, and it would look quite nice, but the chat would have to 
>>be hard wrapped - dunno if that's a good idea.
>
>I have an idea. Maybe you could build the inteligence into the client to 
>automatically do the above. That is, the server would tell the client 
>that so-and-so said blah, blag, blaj, (without line brakes) and the 
>client would display it all pretty and stuff. The alligning would 
>completly be completly up to the client program.
>
>I would hate to see the ability to resize the chat window lost. That's 
>one of those nice Macintosh thingies that Hotline is able to do.

the only problem with that is that as soon as you resize the chat window, 
it would have to reformat all the previous chat.  you'd probably then 
need to keep the unformatted chat stored somewhere else to be called upon 
when the window is resized.  also, although the decision shouldn't be 
based on this single issue, if you have a url pasted in, it could be cut 
off by the formatting:

    hinks:  Hotline is at http://www.netspace.net.au/
            ~hinks/

when you copy it, it would end up being "http://www.netspace.net.au/      
      ~hinks/"

perhaps a text engine that supports multi styles/colours would be better 
for chat, but in the meantime, the current method in b20 is relatively 
difficult to forge, unless, of course, one's nick is 13 chars...

zb

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: New Avara server...
From: Phil Hilton <linda@cybertours.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:18:30 -0500

I Fojnd this on the Macline news...

From Gimli (Jan21 16:03):

I am running an Avara-related hotline server. Hours are generally
midmorning until midnight or so. The server is running off of a 6100/66 fed
by a T3. Current file contents include a complete mirror of
ftp.avara.com/pub/Avara as well as some other useful goodies.

Address:  crh0758.urh.uiuc.edu

Enjoy!



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Freaktures!
From: Huck <xinc@wwonline.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:50:27 -0400

I know this may be hard,but could it be possible to reroute appletalk
games over hotline too?

Now that is a great games plug in. Like Kali!


jr

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Freaktures!
From: Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 97 10:33:59 +1100

>I know this may be hard,but could it be possible to reroute appletalk
>games over hotline too?

It would be quite difficult.  And it wouldn't be part of Hotline - it'd 
be something completely separate.

____________________________________________________________________
Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline <http://netspace.net.au/~hinks/>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Leto_II's suggestions
From: Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 97 10:43:26 +1100

>>hotline.com and holine.org have both been taken, so we would have to be 
>>creative.
>
>How bout these:
>
>www.hotlinerules.com
>
>www.hinksisgod.com
>
>www.hotlinenowarezplease.com

Maybe a bit TOO creative :)

____________________________________________________________________
Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline <http://netspace.net.au/~hinks/>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [HL] Hardwrapping vs. Tabs
From: Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 97 10:55:11 +1100

>Hmmm, couldn't you just set a tab stop (since I've never messed with a 
>macintosh text display engine, I'm unsure) and still softwrap? It's no 
>sunday picnic to program, but might prove to be an interesting weekend 
>project.

Yes, a hanging indent would be the best way, but it could be quite 
difficult to program.

____________________________________________________________________
Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline <http://netspace.net.au/~hinks/>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Chat problem
From: Adam Hinkley <hinks@netspace.net.au>
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 97 11:00:25 +1100

>I have an idea. Maybe you could build the inteligence into the client to 
>automatically do the above. That is, the server would tell the client 
>that so-and-so said blah, blag, blaj, (without line brakes) and the 
>client would display it all pretty and stuff. The alligning would 
>completly be completly up to the client program.

Yes a hanging indent like in a word processor would be perfect, but 
building in word processor features is not exactly easy...  maybe later 
when I do a multi-style text engine.

____________________________________________________________________
Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline <http://netspace.net.au/~hinks/>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Chat problem
From: Noah Daniels <ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:20:37 -0500

>>LuckyEddie says, "well, its sort of like a web server without having to
>>use a web browser"
>>"but no one is making any money off of browsers..."
>>"so the server end would have to make money"
>
>Yes, I've been trying to hold off on this in fear of Hotline
>Commercialization.. BUT....
>
>There is no REAL inscentive for hosting a Hotline server. We do it at ML
>for the sence of accomplishment, and the fact that it looks REALLY good on
>reumase. :)
>
>Well, that's why _I_ do it. I can't speak for the other admins. dunno bout
>them..
>
>
>ANYWAY... the lack of financial inscentive might expain the lack of
>non-warez servers out there.it's not like, if a server gets X amount of
>hits a day, it can sell banner adds. I certaintly don't wanna see HL go
>commercial, but i wouldn't mind tolerating a few ads presented upon login
>to the MacWorld server.
>

I think you're making the wrong comparison. Hotline is not really like a web
browser, it's like First Class, or Telefinder, or Hermes (aka Herpes) or any
other BBS software. The client (if there's a specialized client) is free; the
server is what brings in the dough. Why do people buy server licenses? Not to
put up ad banners, but rather for special-purpose bulletin boards, or things
like that.



-- Noah M. Daniels
    ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu
   http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/~ndaniel1/
    "He was a brave man who first ate an oyster"
      - Jonathan Swift

"'Internet' is the 'snausage' word of the 90's."  - Ben Vigoda '96

"Wonder is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins in wonder" -
Socrates



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Chat problem
From: Royce Eddington <eddingto@ddbniac.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:11:50 -0600


> >I've discovered a bug, of sorts, in =DF19. I found a way that lets you pu=
t
> >words in other people's mouths in the chat window.

(snip)

> I'm not sure what's the best way to stop people from doing that...

If its possible, how about alternate grey and white boxes per post. (IE:
John posts "Whats going on here", and "Whats going on here" would appear in
a white bar. Mark replies "Hello John" and it would appear "Hello John" in
a grey bar. Apple is trying to do something like this for System 7.7 in the
VIEW windows: alternate grey and white bars per item)

Just my two cents....

----------------
Royce Eddington
reddingt@onramp.net
http://rampages.onramp.net/~reddingt



----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of The Hotline Users Digest


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