Sunday, February 2, 1997 9:30:52 PM Message From: The Hotline Users Mailing,Hotline@lists.fwparker.org,Internet Subject: The Hotline Users Digest #20 - 02/02/97 To: Geoff Le Feuvre The Hotline Users Mailing List ,Internet The Hotline Users Digest #20 - Sunday, February 2, 1997 Suggestions (PR ppl have seen these) by David Murphy Re: Suggestions (PR ppl have seen these) by Phil Hilton Re: Suggestions (PR ppl have seen these) by Terry Gregory Re: question by Adam Hinkley Re: General Stuff by Adam Hinkley Re: More suggestions Ok, I don't know if someone already sugges by Adam Hinkley Re: Suggestions (PR ppl have seen these) by Noah Daniels Re: Stuff by Adam Hinkley Adam I found a bug. by Re: Stuff by Noah Daniels Re: Suggestions (PR ppl have seen these) by Adam Hinkley Re: Suggestions (PR ppl have seen these) by Adam Hinkley Re: Adam I found a bug. by Adam Hinkley Re: Stuff by Adam Hinkley Speed question by (Ron Backman) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Suggestions (PR ppl have seen these) From: David Murphy Date: Sun, 2 Feb 97 15:33:38 -0500 NOTE: Some people (hinks, Cheesy, Burn, Zini, Yukka!, etc) may have = alredy seen these suggestions. However, I'm posting these for general = discussion... ----> Suggestions Chat Window * Spell Checker examines text when you press enter. (Why? Well, for = one thing, everyone is always saying *** Mr X Wishes he could spell). = For ver. 20b10. :) * Click on someone's nickname to send a private message to them. Other Stuff * File renaming from the client (there's already a new user pref...). * Hotline Pro. A version for companies that could be used over = networks... * Calandar/Schedule where the admin could post upcoming event info = (chats...) * Hotline use: Easy, world-wide coordonation (like we're doing on HL = PR) * To Do list: When you sign on, you can create a list of check-boxed = stuff to accomplish during te particualr meeting. If you try to = disconnect w/o having done everything, Hotline will tell you what you = neglected to do, and offer to let you do them efore disconnecting. = Thee other day, for example, I ment to save the Chat window's = contents before leaving, but I totally forgot, and the contents = dissappeared. * Server info box: A menu item right underneith the About Hotline = option that loads information about the server you're connected to. = The contents would be set by the server admin (just like the = Agree/Disagree box), and could list the admin's web site, contact, = nickname, and so on. That reminds me... * Automatic admin icon: Admin's are automatically assigned a special, = universal icon, allowing people to identify who's in charge (just = like a police uniform). The need of this is evident when you visit = Chris Roadfeldt's info-mac mirroring server...Chris' nickname is = "Roadkill", and he has a Sylverster icon. That offer's no clue that = he's in charge of things. BTW, his server is at = . That reminds me.... * Internet Config support: I know you said you'd work on the genral = IC support, but I have have some not-so-obvious ideas: * Hotline URL prefix: Make a standard, such as = hl://user:pass@server.address.com [just like the FTP user:pass@server = standard, but with hl:// instead of ftp://] that allows for = clickablility in browsers and IC-aware programs. This includes = Hotline=8BIt would be nice to be able to easily switch servers. Well, that's all for now (1:16 pm EST, 1/27/97)! Thanks! ___________________________________________________________________ This file was created by David Murphy, the overworked maintainer of the Hotline Nickname Registry: ___________________________________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Suggestions (PR ppl have seen these) From: Phil Hilton Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 17:47:21 -0500 >NOTE: Some people (hinks, Cheesy, Burn, Zini, Yukka!, etc) may have alredy >seen these suggestions. However, I'm posting these for general >discussion... > >----> > >Suggestions > > >Chat Window >* Click on someone's nickname to send a private message to them. huh? in the user list? try double clicking... >Other Stuff >* File renaming from the client (there's already a new user pref...). b20=8A To Do list: When you sign on, you can create a list of check-boxed stuff to accomplish during te particualr meeting. If you try to disconnect w/o having done everything, Hotline will tell you what you neglected to do, and offer to let you do them efore disconnecting. Thee other day, for example, I ment to save the Chat window's contents before leaving, but I totally forgot, and the contents dissappeared. is it me, or is this puching it waaaaaaaaaaaay too far? :) >* Server info box: A menu item right underneith the About Hotline option >that loads information about the server you're connected to. The contents >would be set by the server admin (just like the Agree/Disagree box), and >could list the admin's web site, contact, nickname, and so on. That >reminds me... The tracker will have an info area >* Automatic admin icon: Admin's are automatically assigned a special, >universal icon, allowing people to identify who's in charge (just like a >police uniform). The need of this is evident when you visit Chris >Roadfeldt's info-mac mirroring server...Chris' nickname is "Roadkill", and >he has a Sylverster icon. That offer's no clue that he's in charge of >things. BTW, his server is at . That reminds me.... b20 =3D admin nicks in red Cheesy _______________________________________________________________ ********************************************* * __ __ _ _ * * | \/ | __ _ ___| (_)_ __ ___ * * | |\/| |/ _` |/ __| | | '_ \ / _ \ * * | | | | (_| | (__| | | | | | __/ * * |_| |_|\__,_|\___|_|_|_| |_|\___| * * ---------------------------------- * * - The OFFICIAL Macintosh Hotline Server - * * (http://macline.fwparker.org) * * * * macline@macline.fwparker.org * * * ********************************************* ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Suggestions (PR ppl have seen these) From: Terry Gregory Date: Sun, 2 Feb 97 16:30:41 -0700 On 2/2/97 3:47 PM, Phil Hilton uttered the following: >To Do list: When you sign on, you can create a list of check-boxed stuff to >accomplish during te particualr meeting. If you try to disconnect w/o >having done everything, Hotline will tell you what you neglected to do, and >offer to let you do them efore disconnecting. Thee other day, for example, >I ment to save the Chat window's contents before leaving, but I totally >forgot, and the contents dissappeared. > >is it me, or is this puching it waaaaaaaaaaaay too far? :) if you'd like, I wouldn't mind sponsoring a pad of paper and a pen for you...and it'd be fairly user friendly - just write whatever it is you want to do, then, as you complete on of them, cross it off the list. Seriously, Hinks doesn't work for MS, so it doesn't make sense to bloat hotline excessively (no, it does *not* need a spell checker :P - if you're really concerned about spelling, try spell catcher or something.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: question From: Adam Hinkley Date: Mon, 3 Feb 97 11:40:52 +1100 >Anyways, is there any plan for improving the chat on Hotline? I think there >should be some kind of list that says who is in the room, and it should say >when someone enters or exits. Private chat and list of users attached to the window is coming. ____________________________________________________________________ Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: General Stuff From: Adam Hinkley Date: Mon, 3 Feb 97 11:44:13 +1100 >To hinks: How much longer til b20? we all expect you to work night and >day and >eventually have major medical problems with sleep deprivation until you >release >b20, and then we expect you to tell us all about it and then work night >and day >and eventually have medical problems with sleep deprivation until you = release >b21... >May the Caffeine be with you... b20 is still on schedule for middle of feb. Most of the changes so = far are in the server: Hotline Server Release Notes WHAT'S NEW IN 1.1b20 *** so far *** =80 Clients are notified when a client becomes "away" (10 mins = inactivity) or is no longer away. =80 Increased maximum size of private message from 255 bytes to 2K. =80 Instead of quitting when there are too many consecutive errors, = the server now resets itself (disconnect all users etc) and keeps = going. =80 When an error occurs while processing a file transfer, that = transfer is now killed. The most common cause of a server dying was = file transfer errors =8B it would continually retry and fail, causing = a ton of errors. =80 Fixed a problem that could cause a file download to stall for up = to 16 seconds. =80 Now has a toolbar like the client (the server does not support = custom toolbars). =80 Changed connect/disconnect sounds (the original ones were stolen = from another app). Thanks Steve! =80 "Files" folder can now be an alias. =80 The server confirms quitting when there are people connected, and = gives the option of displaying a message to users when they get = disconnected ("Polite Quit"). Note that Polite Quit will not quit = when pre-b20 clients are connected! =80 Extra stats in the Statistics window. =80 New options window allows you to turn off sounds, limit the = number of downloads etc. =80 Support for new access privilege "Cannot be Disconnected". When = turned on (with b20 client), the user cannot be disconnected even if = the user trying to do the disconnect has "Can Disconnect Users" on. =80 By default, users can only upload to folders that contain = "upload" in the name. There's also a "Can Upload Anywhere" access = checkbox to disable that per-user. =80 The server no longer lets you create a new user with more access = than yourself (however you CAN if you modify an existing user!). =80 Support for private files on a per-user basis. By default, users = see what's in the "Files" folder in the same folder as the server. = To use a different folder for a specific user, make a folder named = "Files" and place it into that users folder. For example, to give = user "admin" access to the entire hard disk, make an alias, name it = "Files" and place inside the "admin" folder inside the "Users" folder = in the same folder as the server. =80 When the access for a user is modified while clients are = currently logged in as that user, the new access takes effect = immediately (previously the original access would stay in effect for = already logged in clients until they disconnected). =80 Can now delete users (moves the specified users folder to the = trash). =80 Fixed a rather embarrassing memory leak (200+ bytes were being = leaked whenever a file was opened). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: More suggestions Ok, I don't know if someone already sugges From: Adam Hinkley Date: Mon, 3 Feb 97 11:46:59 +1100 >Is it possible to >include a ban capability to keep certain individuals off the server? That's coming soon. >Another idea is the ability to allow certain accounts to access >certain folders. Already done for b20: (due to be released mid of feb) =80 Support for private files on a per-user basis. By default, users = see what's in the "Files" folder in the same folder as the server. = To use a different folder for a specific user, make a folder named = "Files" and place it into that users folder. For example, to give = user "admin" access to the entire hard disk, make an alias, name it = "Files" and place inside the "admin" folder inside the "Users" folder = in the same folder as the server. ____________________________________________________________________ Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Suggestions (PR ppl have seen these) From: Noah Daniels Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 19:29:17 -0500 >NOTE: Some people (hinks, Cheesy, Burn, Zini, Yukka!, etc) may have alredy >seen these suggestions. However, I'm posting these for general discussion... > >----> > >Suggestions > > >Chat Window >* Spell Checker examines text when you press enter. (Why? Well, for one thing, >everyone is always saying *** Mr X Wishes he could spell). For ver. 20b10. :) Um.... maybe it's just me, but this seems like a ton of added memory and processor time for very little benefit. Either people can spell fine, or their typing is terrible. If the former, they'll turn off the spell checker. If the latter, they'll end up turning it off as well because it'll try to make them type the whole line over. Spell checking is for word processors and email, not for real-time chat. >* Click on someone's nickname to send a private message to them. > That means not having a simple text engine for chat any more... personally, I think double clicking on the name in the user list is just fine. > >Other Stuff >* File renaming from the client (there's already a new user pref...). This is planned, it just hasn't been implemented. >* Hotline Pro. A version for companies that could be used over networks... Sounds like marketing without a product, here... what exactly WOULD hotline pro do differently? There's nothing keeping the existing hotline from being used on an intranet... do you have actual feature suggestions for the pro version that would *not* go in the non-pro version? >* Calandar/Schedule where the admin could post upcoming event info (chats...) Isn't News (once it gets that overhaul Hinks is talking about) exactly the plase for this? >* To Do list: When you sign on, you can create a list of check-boxed stuff to >accomplish during te particualr meeting. If you try to disconnect w/o having >done everything, Hotline will tell you what you neglected to do, and offer to >let you do them efore disconnecting. Thee other day, for example, I ment to >save the Chat window's contents before leaving, but I totally forgot, and the >contents dissappeared. I definitely think the 'feature' of the Chat window losing its contents when you get disconnected is a BAD idea. It should lose the old contents when you connect to a *new* site, but sometime I want to go back and read something after logging off, or if the server crashes, etc. -- Noah M. Daniels ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/~ndaniel1/ "He was a brave man who first ate an oyster" - Jonathan Swift "'Internet' is the 'snausage' word of the 90's." - Ben Vigoda '96 "Wonder is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins in wonder" - Socrates ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Stuff From: Adam Hinkley Date: Mon, 3 Feb 97 11:52:17 +1100 >I was on a Hotline server today, and I clicked into the Finder to get into my >harddrive but the Hotline toolbar was blocking me from clicking my HD icon. >So anyways, I was thinking, "Don't floating toolbars usually disappear when >you switch programs?" So I think the Hotline toolbar should disappear if you >switch Hotline client into the background or something.. Option-click anywhere in the desktop and the front application will be hidden and you'll switch to the finder. You can also option-click between different applications. ____________________________________________________________________ Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Adam I found a bug. From: pramsey@mail.tds.net Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 20:16:46 -0500 If you are on a site doing whatever, then someone sends ya a private message, then you press the reply button, then get disconnected before sending the reply, then click send, you crash! -togtog ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Stuff From: Noah Daniels Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 20:27:06 -0500 >>I was on a Hotline server today, and I clicked into the Finder to get into my >>harddrive but the Hotline toolbar was blocking me from clicking my HD icon. >>So anyways, I was thinking, "Don't floating toolbars usually disappear when >>you switch programs?" So I think the Hotline toolbar should disappear if you >>switch Hotline client into the background or something.. > >Option-click anywhere in the desktop and the front application will be >hidden and you'll switch to the finder. You can also option-click >between different applications. Yeah, but standard system behavior is that floaters disappear in the background, even if the app isn't 'hidden' - I love some of the stuff you've done with the interface, but I really think it should behave like the system in some of the ways we take for granted... and this is one. -- Noah M. Daniels ndaniel1@swarthmore.edu http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/~ndaniel1/ "He was a brave man who first ate an oyster" - Jonathan Swift "'Internet' is the 'snausage' word of the 90's." - Ben Vigoda '96 "Wonder is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins in wonder" - Socrates ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Suggestions (PR ppl have seen these) From: Adam Hinkley Date: Mon, 3 Feb 97 12:53:08 +1100 >* File renaming from the client (there's already a new user pref...). It's coming. >* Hotline Pro. A version for companies that could be used over networks... And what would it do in addition to the standard version? >* Calandar/Schedule where the admin could post upcoming event info (chats...) Isn't that what the news is for? >* Hotline use: Easy, world-wide coordonation (like we're doing on HL PR) Sounds like the Hotline Tracker that I'm working on. >* To Do list: When you sign on, you can create a list of check-boxed stuff >to accomplish during te particualr meeting. If you try to disconnect w/o >having done everything, Hotline will tell you what you neglected to do, >and offer to let you do them efore disconnecting. Thee other day, for >example, I ment to save the Chat window's contents before leaving, but I >totally forgot, and the contents dissappeared. For 2.0b10 :) >* Server info box: A menu item right underneith the About Hotline option >that loads information about the server you're connected to. The contents >would be set by the server admin (just like the Agree/Disagree box), and >could list the admin's web site, contact, nickname, and so on. That >reminds me... So a way to make the "agreement" text come up again after you're logged in? >* Automatic admin icon: Admin's are automatically assigned a special, >universal icon, allowing people to identify who's in charge (just like a >police uniform). The need of this is evident when you visit Chris >Roadfeldt's info-mac mirroring server...Chris' nickname is "Roadkill", and >he has a Sylverster icon. That offer's no clue that he's in charge of >things. BTW, his server is at . That reminds me.... In b20 (due to be released mid of feb), admins are red in the user list. >* Internet Config support: I know you said you'd work on the genral IC >support, but I have have some not-so-obvious ideas: I'm investigating it. ____________________________________________________________________ Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Suggestions (PR ppl have seen these) From: Adam Hinkley Date: Mon, 3 Feb 97 13:12:11 +1100 >I definitely think the 'feature' of the Chat window losing its contents when >you get disconnected is a BAD idea. It should lose the old contents when you >connect to a *new* site, but sometime I want to go back and read something >after logging off, or if the server crashes, etc. Good point! Yes, it should clear the chat window when you connect to a new site - not as soon as you disconnect. I'll fix that. ____________________________________________________________________ Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Adam I found a bug. From: Adam Hinkley Date: Mon, 3 Feb 97 13:20:01 +1100 >If you are on a site doing whatever, then someone sends ya a private >message, then you press the reply button, then get disconnected before >sending the reply, then click send, you crash! This has been fixed for b20. ____________________________________________________________________ Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Stuff From: Adam Hinkley Date: Mon, 3 Feb 97 13:30:37 +1100 >Yeah, but standard system behavior is that floaters disappear in the >background, even if the app isn't 'hidden' That's not entirely true - "palette" windows are supposed to disappear when the app is in the background. That is, floating windows that modify something in a document window. For example, a paint program might have all the paint tools in a palette window. This type of window should definitely be hidden when the app is in the background. However, the toolbar is a different kind of floating window - it's the main window that everything else in the app starts from. The main window in an application should never be hidden (unless the user specifically closes it). ____________________________________________________________________ Adam Hinkley, developer of Hotline ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Speed question From: backman@ndti.net (Ron Backman) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 18:22:48 -0800 In b19, I notice that the first file being downloaded doesn't seem to use all the bandwidth available. I'm using 28.8 kb connection, OT 1.1.2 and MacOS 7.5.5 My ISP to my server is many hops away as well. The first "dl" will get up to agout 900 bytes/sec and the second "dl" will eventually get up to 1K bytes/sec. (I get better on good days) Why doesn't the first "dl" get all the apparent bandwidth, or am I imagining this? If I "dl" 3 or 4 apps at once, finally I do get a total of around 3 Kb/sec. Anyone else noticed this? ........................................ (Buzzard by day and Buzzard Lite by nite) Mojave Desert ....................................... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- End of The Hotline Users Digest --- Internet Message Header Follows --- Received: from macline.fwparker.org by bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca (SMI-8.6/SMI-4.0) id KAA04932; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:18:43 -0500 Message-Id: <199702031518.KAA04932.4932@bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca> From: The Hotline Users Mailing List To: The Hotline Users Mailing List Subject: The Hotline Users Digest #20 - 02/02/97 Date: Sun, 2 Feb 97 20:30:52 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Precedence: Bulk X-ListServer: LetterRip 1.0 by Fog City Software, Inc.